What to do with the Muppets? It's a question that has stumped Disney for the last ten years. The Sickos come to the rescue with a bunch of pitches, but honestly, it's shameful you even need a pitch. The Muppets are little guys made of felt and when they talk everyone goes, wow, that's real. That's a real person. That's your pitch. Anyway. Enjoy the episode.
[00:00:28] Cold Open this week. This is Anime Sickoss Podcast, the podcast for geniuses and the only podcast where we take a look at the four pillars of fond and misery anime gaming posting in shops. I just did the one about how we don't do that. Yeah, I understand. You got nervous. I get it. It's not even words. Joe, honestly, I say it phonetically like ABBA at this point. It's just like it does. It's just a mouth movement that I've memorized. And so the fact
[00:00:58] that I was like realized that I was saying that, I mean, would it be crazy to just this is a question to you to listener answer me however you want. We're on blue sky and email us at Anime Sickos at gmail.com. If I just said Anime Sickos, the podcast for geniuses and the only podcast, would that be fine from now on? Well, yeah, I may. I maybe. Maybe. Maybe.
[00:01:23] Maybe. Maybe. It doesn't undercut anything we do, which is all smart. So it's always been the podcast for geniuses. That is sort of a macro level description of like, what is it in a philosophical sense? It does not answer what is discussed on it, but neither does that four pillars thing anymore, really, even. Sure. And the four pillars thing was when this started, we were like, what's the like the search stuff, which was why we had that because
[00:01:53] we want to talk about those things at baseline so we could complain about them. Wait, I think the idea was that if we weren't talking about one of those four pillars, like wherever we landed would seem reasonable. It's like if these fuckers are going to talk about one of these four things, they get off topic. You're not surprised where they wind up because because of the warning. And also, like, even if there was something that wasn't
[00:02:17] in those four things, like the possibility space that is not covered by those four pillars was so small. It's zero. It's everything. Like the distance between it and being one of the four is like inches. So like, who cares? But now there's now there's again, as we say, now there's no doing. You can't do anything. So nothing falls into one of the four things because there's no things to fall into categories
[00:02:43] anymore. I'm Tom and Anna Meziko. I don't think I introduced my own self. I'm Joe and Anna Meziko. And like everything. This podcast is going on because it was already going when things got bad. Yeah. And part of what allows us to keep going is our wonderful patrons who patronize us. Two of the newest patrons who have patronized us on Patreon.com slash Anna Meziko is Michael Schmidt.
[00:03:12] Thank you, Michael. I love when we get like a classic normal name that's not a joke. It's just like, wow, I can't believe they still put them on the Internet. I know this is a real five dollars because of this real name. Yeah. And our next newest patron is a Lorelai V. Thank you, Lorelai. Thank you. Thank you. It rules to get five dollars from a stranger. You can give us five dollars on the Internet.
[00:03:41] Anyway, Joe, I got you showed me this. You showed me. I'm going to read from an article from Deadline, the trade publication for the entertainment industry. So there is something going on with the Muppets. The Disney owns the Muppets. We all know this. And the Muppets had some special that had Sabrina Carpenter in it. And it, you know, did pretty well.
[00:04:09] Good ratings, both in terms of, you know, reviews and people who were watching it. And when it happened, people kept noticing, like, wait a minute. Hasn't Disney owned the Muppets for like many decades now? How come it's very... Why is Muppet output so low? It's very rare to see the Muppets. Here is from the fucking article from Deadline. Quote, according to sources, it, the lack of Muppets,
[00:04:38] is not for lack of trying and the reasons have been creative. I hear, says the writer of this article, Nelly Andreeva, I hear that there have been difficulties cracking a premise for an ongoing Muppet show series that Disney and the Muppets studio and Point Grey, which is Seth Rogen's studio, which I guess has something to do with the Muppets, that they will all be on board for.
[00:05:05] There are no active series conversations at the moment. But to me, what are we talking about? I'm disgusted. I'm fucking disgusted. At baseline, I assume the Muppets are always working on something? Like, that's just... There is a lab somewhere. No, there is an XCOM style base somewhere, right? Yeah.
[00:05:32] And then in one of the rooms, there's a progress bar. And like, Sam Eagle is in there. And he's like, I'm working on the next show. Yes. And just like, it's like, once the bar shows up, like a Muppet output will come out and everyone will be delighted. And then that's that. Muppets, to me, the fact that the Muppet... You can't crack Muppets. You can't crack Muppets. So like, we haven't tried. We haven't opened our eyes.
[00:06:01] Yes, this is... Dad Flanders' parents saying, we tried nothing and we're all out of ideas. Okay, so here's just like basic Muppet math. People... love and fucking can't get enough of when a real person stands next to a Muppet. But they... Like, yes, the perfect example is Michael Caine and A Christmas Story because he's just like, this is serious.
[00:06:31] Like, he's no-selling it. Very dramatic. It's very funny. Mm-hmm. But if like Michael Caine was like just on his phone while a Muppet was around him, people would watch that too. Joe, yes. Yes, this is... Okay. I'm really glad you led with that because I'm about to... This is mostly... This episode is free labor for Disney. We got to send this to them. And then they can kick fucking Seth Rogen out and we'll be in charge. This is... This is the pitch, fuckers.
[00:06:57] If you just wanted to go the absolute laziest route, take no creative risks, and spend as little money as possible, Joe, you just spin up a shoddy celebrity video podcast except the hosts are the Muppets. Like, imagine... Yes. Like, Fozzie Bear is the host this week and he's talking to Sandra Huller. Yes. Yes. Yes.
[00:07:27] God, that's not even a show. You know, that's like... That would win immediately. Like, that... Okay. So here's... They can't crack it. They're scratching their head. They don't get... Here's why this is disgusting. Mm-hmm. Of the Muppet properties, are we in agreement that, like, this is the perfect example? The Muppet show is the Muppet property. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I think it is so useful
[00:07:57] to be, like, the core identity of the Muppets because it is the justification for all the other shit because you start on square one with the idea that the Muppets are actors and performers. So when they're doing some other shit, that's them doing a show they're putting on and that allows them to do anything.
[00:08:27] Genius. Genius. Not only that. If you get down to it, there's only, like, six plots ever. Yeah. Like, Stranger Comes to Town, get the Dragon Balls, and then we're putting on a show. Yeah. And the reason that's one of the, like, the core plots of humanity is you can't fuck it up. You can't fuck it up. Like, before we started talking about this
[00:08:57] for months, Tom and I would say Muppet Show as a shorthand for when we're doing something on the show and the joke is, like, we're doing it poorly or it's, like, we're trying to do a thing and it's, like, very public and embarrassing. You know what I mean? It's just, like, you're putting on a thing and, like, the equivalent of, like, Kermit trying to do something and not going well is fun. The sketch we did very recently on the fucking Canada episode where the premise was that this was not a sketch. This was caught accidentally
[00:09:27] before we started actually doing the podcast and then I read the lyrics to Life as a Highway. Like, that's Muppet Show. That's, like, a Muppet Show sketch. And, again, sketch, I think, is the operative word because, like, we can't crack the Muppet Show. Sketches! There you go. There are a bunch of sketches. Goofy stuff happens. And then the added element is that they're backstage and, like, complaining about how it went.
[00:09:57] Yes. Like, there's nothing to fuck up here if you're not stupid. You don't need the backstage bits to be, like, a serialized show. You know? We're like, like, that's, I think, I think that's what they're struggling with is that, like, they're stuck in the prestige TV world that The Sopranos created where, like, if a show is good, if a show is, like, serious and you're actually putting work into it,
[00:10:26] that means it's serialized and has season-long arcs. And if you try to make this... That's literally Sesame Street, though, and it's been going for 100 billion years. It has... Sesame Street has series-long arcs? Not series-long arcs, but, like, at the start of an episode, a little plane will fly by and say, like, what episode number it is. And although it does not imply arcs, when they're like, yeah, this is 4,000 of these fuckers, I just know... How do I put this?
[00:10:57] Yes, prestige TV is impressive. Like, oh, whoever wants to get through three seasons of just, like, top-notch quality shit. But you know what also is impressive? Doing the same thing forever and not even God can stop you. Exactly, yes. Which is why, like, the always sunny episodes that don't hit now, it's like, well, I don't really care that much because, like, they're in the arena every week. They do it. They keep going. And it's become almost like
[00:11:26] a task from antiquity to keep doing this forever. And, in addition to, like, it is funny itself. But, like, it's a two-factor approach there. But always sunny doesn't have any arcs, you know? Like, they will have callbacks to, like, things that have happened in the past. But to the extent of, you know, it's just character jokes. You know, like, oh, this character showed up. They were in an earlier episode
[00:11:54] where they were this broad archetype. And now they're that same broad archetype now, but in a different scenario. There's no arcs. It's not like you have to go into a writer's room and really work to crack Always Sunny. It's like, there's five freaks and they get into hijinks. That's it. Like, honestly, the most bonehead Muppet Show pitch is, so, you know how there are sketch writers who live in Los Angeles, California? What if you
[00:12:24] employed the sketch writers and the cast was the Muppets? And that's it. No story. And like, every episode, there's like two backstage bits where they refer to like, whoa, what a show we're putting on. But like, it's just sketches. What's wrong with that? You know why this works? Because it's the same thing as 30 Rock, which is good. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You get Tim Robinson on that. Get Tim Robinson writing
[00:12:54] for Gonzo. Oh, come on. Tell me you don't want to see that. And the point of having a long-running Muppet Show, like, if you rebooted it and did that, it's not to have arcs. It's to see every episode title on one page that says all the celebrity guests, and it's just like, wow, look at all these people we made talk to the Muppets. What a really rewarding life's work. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, God. It's, I mean, talk about a famous people
[00:13:23] with the Muppets. That's the, why are we not doing the classics of the, of Western literature movie version but Muppets no more? Now, Joe, I, I'll give you a conspiracy theory. I think it's because everyone's been eating too much Himalayan pink salt and they have giant DNA. No, it's because I think not really, this is a joke but I, but I'm also very serious
[00:13:51] that the reason they are not making Muppet movie versions of the canon classics of literature is because they want you to forget that there is literature. Like, legitimately, like, why wouldn't they do Muppet Moby Dick where Ishmael's the only guy? It's because they want you to forget that there's Moby Dick out there so that you'll look at AI instead. Look, you're not going to read
[00:14:21] Moby Dick on your own. You should. I'm just saying, like, the deck is stacked against you because of the world. The world. And so, they certainly don't want like Kermit letting you learn about it. The other reason why you're never going to see, well, not never, but why you don't see more of these open domain, public domain based, like, works of art adapted for Muppetry is because Disney spent all this fucking money getting all these other
[00:14:50] shitty IPs. You think they're going to be like, oh, and then we're going to do one based not on something we spent a ton of money on. Are you insane? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's true. I also think that, I mean, for talking about IPs, I think another thing that's really locking them up is the deification of popular IPs. You know, like, we know the Muppets are good, so, like, we're locked up because, like,
[00:15:20] we're scared that we're, like, gonna not honor Miss Piggy. I have my mind go to there was a panel going around of a Muppets slash X-Men crossover where Emma Frost, the X-Man who can use mind-reading powers, mind-reads Miss Piggy to confirm that whatever she was saying is true, and Miss Piggy is like, go for it, babe, I don't mind. And then
[00:15:49] there is a spread where Emma Frost is going, oh, and is seeing all of the different epic things Miss Piggy has done, and then someone says, Emma, was she lying? And Emma says, no, she's everything, and I'd die for her, which is so millennial, that's like the 2010s-iest phrases, saying that someone is everything, saying I'd freaking die for them,
[00:16:19] we're past that. And also, it's just like, it's the same sort of like, we need to stop treating these characters with tongs, like we're going to drop them and break them. And that's another thing you can do with a sketch show, is you can have new characters, like new Muppets, play bits in the sketches, and they could just be one-off Muppets. But maybe, if it's a really hit sketch that people like, that could become one of the new
[00:16:49] Muppets. We're just saying, you could do new Muppets. But the premise is not lost, you understand? It's not like, what are they gonna do? It's, honestly, just do the thing it did before again, just have new celebrities. People would watch that. I don't know what the, like, the head-scratching part of it is. I think there just, there seems to be this idea that there has to be more ambition to it. You know what
[00:17:19] it probably really, really is, is the same problem of all fucking creative media being sold in the market, which is, it must make an unbelievable amount of money to be worth its position on the ledger. And a sort of very modest, very, like, this is just what the Muppets are good at, let's just have them turn the
[00:17:49] crank and delightful Muppets stuff will come out. That will make, like, linear money. That's not acceptable. So I think maybe one thing that we could do is also do some pitches that are a little crazier, a little higher concept that I still think the Muppets could make work. You mentioned adapting Hunter x Hunter Muppet version. first of all, I'm going to kick my cat
[00:18:19] out because she thinks this idea is so good. Hold on. Just do it again with the Muppets. You want to talk about accessibility. How many people are not going to watch Hunter x Hunter or read it because it's anime or manga? It's our job as cultural connoisseurs to package it in a way they can understand it and appreciate it and love it. That starts with the Hunter x Hunter remake. Everything
[00:18:48] is Muppets except for the ants should be freaks. I was going to say the ants are guys. The ants are like people. They don't even have makeup on. No makeup but they have really lazy bug pincers on their head. I was just thinking the fact that they're not made of felt is the thing that makes them freaks. There's also just do a movie. Is there any Muppet noir? Could they
[00:19:18] make brick again with Muppets? Yeah, okay. We got Rian Johnson. He's making the Knives Out movies. He's turning the crank on whodunits. I think this has even been discussed in connection with the Knives Out series which is just do one and everyone's Muppets except for Daniel Craig and again don't discuss it. That's the thing. I think
[00:19:47] it all comes back to this. Why do people like Muppets? They like Muppets for the same reason they like famous actors. I've seen them in movies that I like. Their personality is big and brash and I understand it. They have charisma. that's I mean like just lean into that. That's the reason you would look at them alone. Like yes. Yeah.
[00:20:17] You don't have to explain why the Muppets are here. Everyone's just happy they're here. You don't need to get the origin. Maybe this hesitancy we don't know what to do with it because like they're probably looking at as a reboot and if you have a reboot you gotta have a really captivating origin even if it's the same thing again and again like Batman. So like it doesn't matter where the Muppets come from. What matters is that they're there and they're a problem. Like they
[00:20:47] the origin of the Muppets is that they wanted to be performers and so they became performers and now they're performing. That's it. Like can it be more simple? Just do that. They had here's actually speaking of that if I'm just thinking about like the appeal of the Muppets is like the same appeal of like why does someone like Harrison Ford? Like it's the same thing. They think he's cool
[00:21:17] and they like his personality and then in a movie it's like hey that's that guy I like here's what I think here's if they don't know how to crack the Muppets as like a show this is the way you keep them in the public consciousness and make a little bit of money is that like you just start shopping Kermit around to like auditions for normal roles yes yes yes under aliases so no one knows like
[00:21:47] Kermit's gonna walk through that door this is this is the whole show it's like he's trying to get back on the scene and it's him auditioning again like this would fucking be it yo you know what it is is you get Nathan you know Nathan Fielder is doing that rather has already done that turns out he was following her along while she was preparing to go to prison for all the fraud I think what you do
[00:22:16] is like yeah you just start like it doesn't have to be Kermit it can be it can be Gonzo it could be fucking Miss Piggy it could be any of them Muppets it could be Rolf they just go around and you start like auditioning for like human man roles like the audition is not for a puppet and you have a documentary crew follow where are they now yeah like where are they grinding out
[00:22:46] where are they trying to get work now yes it would be a slam dunk you make it a mockumentary like obviously the auditions are real like he really is trying and then like there's like a scene afterwards where he said the this is what you do you hopefully it happens naturally but maybe there's just a
[00:23:16] movie that the studio is like this is you know this is middling I don't know how this is going to work cast Kermit in it but ideally he gets a role because he was the best actor for it then that movie comes out where one of the guys is Kermit and this is a Muppet movie no Kermit just in it Kermit and and you're like it's kind of far fetched here's the thing when they were saying like this AI actor lady Tilly Nornor or whatever her name was is going to be that should just be Kermit yes oh my god
[00:23:46] and it's the same that should just be Kermit it should just be Kermit and everyone would love it and it would be so fun and then once that movie is like known and like after maybe the first week if it being in theaters people can see it that's when you drop the trailer for the fucking documentary of how did this happen and it turns out Kermit's been like like guys they can't crack us so I have to do this my own self and then that can be like the start of something
[00:24:16] they don't know what to do with us like he's literally reading the article we just read and he's like they don't know what to do with us show oh my god they know what to do with us
[00:24:48] I one of them is that like where are they now one of them has a podcast that would be pretty good put a pin in that come back to that what I was going to say is late night TV is in a crisis who know the numbers are dropping it's becoming more and more like short form content where they do little pre tapes what happened to the classic glory days of the variety
[00:25:18] show like Johnny Carson what happened to that will never happen again because it's just it's an old stale format that we've moved past if only there was some way to inject that format with some goofiness that people still liked Muppets Muppets again it's the same thing they're performers they can have bits behind the scenes where they're fucking up they can have like little like Miss
[00:25:47] Piggy and Kermit are fighting you can do those bits but also just have a classic talk show but it's the Muppets yeah there's a musical guest doing its thing like actually you is there a labor crisis in America type stuff it's gonna be like more goofy yeah like maybe you have one or two gags per interview where another
[00:26:17] Muppet like comes out and does something and they're like oh you and also like because it's a variety show I'm talking I'm thinking about classic Conan Conan had the awful monologue that I hated but then he would sit down and there would be been a monologue it's like particularly good I just always think it's the shittiest part of everything it is so
[00:26:47] I think we both have sort of a strained relationship with stand-up comedy obviously there is stand-up comedy that's like exceptionally great and that we love but that is very rare to find and the monologue is always do hear about this type stuff it's the worst jokes ever done and Joe like the what's the thing that the great stand-up that we like all has in common John Mulaney
[00:27:17] yes but also it wasn't the first time the comedian said those jokes in his or her life yes that's okay I don't want to be a dick because obviously I've heard I'm just like they have a whole room to make that that you ever seen the Larry Sanders show or heard about it I
[00:27:47] I've not seen it a lot of people are ride or die right it is fantastic it's really good if you aren't aware it was a sitcom in the 90s on HBO it was sort of a dark mirror image of Seinfeld not in the plot but it had a lot of people a lot of crossover with staff and I think they shot in adjacent sets and they both were
[00:28:17] the powerhouses of comedy Seinfeld was what normies watched and if you were a Larry Shandling plays Larry Sanders who was a late night host and it's just the fucking goings on of the production of a late night talk show and one of the reasons it's good much like 30 rock is good is that the fictional show is in the world
[00:28:46] kind of bad like it's not yes yes and they have one of the main characters is the head writer and like he writing the monologue is exactly like that it's exactly like the Simpsons being like what about everybody hates Raymond like we stayed up all night but it was worth it it's great but you could do you could do Larry Sanders show for
[00:29:16] Muppets you just also gave more evidence that again there's only six types of shows and one of them is putting on a show in your example how would work you proved us correct further Fozzie Bear writes the monologue that's why it's bad yes and also he wants like one of the issues is he's writing it
[00:29:55] and you could throw the fozzie
[00:30:25] no that's awesome this didn't scare me but it gave me that sort of like brain static where like things are supposed to be a certain like obviously order has been suggested and yet it has not been completed because Fozzie Bear for a while I don't know why maybe this only happened once maybe this was another character that wasn't a Muppet that I'm thinking about but he
[00:30:56] is this ringing a bell with you yes so I didn't know what that the word press meant like reporters I thought he was just like you are supposed to press the hat here and no one ever did and I'm like this setup is taking fucking forever to pay off no one's pressing it I'm
[00:31:26] just saying that could be a sketch someone misinterpreting that that would be five ten seconds you do a rim shot you move on yes the other thing is that you need to understand the being so precious with the IP it's like we need to have something ironclad for the Muppets because they're so beloved no no no you're looking at it backwards you can put the Muppets in some schlock they don't have to be good the Muppet carries it you want like literally okay Disney owns them all right well everyone's kind of
[00:31:56] slowing down it's already slowed down the rate at which Marvel movies are being released was insane it was very frequent and the demand was just not there like Disney was going to destroy themselves producing famously one of the issues with IPs is if you don't use them you'll lose them we know this because like Sony would have to make a Spider-Man every so often right yeah and it would be fine whatever dude
[00:32:25] the Muppets are your answer to that any IP you got that needs a little tingle so you can keep using it you deploy the Muppets and how in in Marvel alone how many D tier things you got thing fang foom he's like a dragon man yeah he should hang out with Fozzie what do we do with She-Hulk
[00:32:54] the She-Hulk show didn't do well make She-Hulk hang out with Gonzo like Gonzo doesn't even need to be like he can just be like the side character who's her friend I mean like Miss Piggy's gonna beat up She-Hulk because she thinks She-Hulk is hitting on Kermit it's gonna happen that would be very fucking funny I think it's just it's just so in a way I think the
[00:33:24] Muppets versatility is working against them considering we have a very uncreative creative industry I'm talking about the industry not the writers and performers obviously but like when something needs to have a hammer and there's all these nails that need to be put into a board and they're like I just don't what is this for the only thing that the execs think about and care about especially with AI being around
[00:33:54] they're supercharged to think about the the only thing matters is having a product with tags at the end and it's like it has to have the
[00:35:25] splash mountain tell me about this bear it's just a creepy bear it's like this plastic bear and it had that wonderful click hole article it's like I was on the splash mountain ride and the bear said it was going to marry my dad that's pretty scary Muppets Muppets could you Joe actually I just remembered this this happened a while ago and everyone was just sort of baffled I think that it was just ahead of its time
[00:35:55] this needed a lead up to it there needed to be cultural not saturation but like there needed to have been more Muppets just around I think that's like they just need to be around in this time between projects and it's like we don't have a Muppet movie we don't have a Muppet show but like Muppets should just like show up in things why are they commercials god damn it they should be I mean I hate to say they should sell out but like if anyone's gonna should be the Muppets
[00:36:25] there was a thing where they had the masked singer where there's someone in an elaborate costume singing and you're supposed to see can I figure out this secondhand for someone at work just continue talking but I'm so excited and they did the thing where they reveal who this masked creature was I say creature because usually this person they unmasked and fucking Kermit popped out and it's just like this is so Kermit's
[00:36:55] already a guy doing a voice and so and so like who was like people were confused and like frustrated by the dissonance there he was singing well right I don't know I didn't watch it I think so I mean that's the thing if he's like oh how can I find it the rainbow like they'll be like that's fucking Kermit like day one that's funny because that's both Kermit and Joe Parra that's really good
[00:37:26] like so okay people were like confused by that and I think that problem was we had not primed culture to just be like Muppets are guys and like they can every single theme park where they are properly owned it's just like you're leaving money on the table yeah oh my goodness I think also
[00:37:54] what made the Muppets so great originally that sort of made their laid the foundation for them being so beloved is that there were like in much the same way that they are a scrappy group of artists artists it was because there was like a handful of unique freaks who were just like I love puppets like I'm gonna go nuts yeah like Jim Henson like I saw
[00:38:24] the diagram like he has crawled into like a completely submerged oil barrel with like a straw to breathe so he could properly do that underwater and on a lot it's just these guys like puppets yeah in a way that no one does the love for puppets was also the funniest part of forgetting Sarah Marshall I mean it's not it's not for nothing that the like one successful Muppet thing in the last 20 years was Jason
[00:38:54] Siegel's Muppet movie he smooches them like it comes from a place of absolute love right yes and like that's I think the thing it's the thing that people like is a freak being like I have to do this or I'll die I think the case in point is if you like look at the history of the Muppets like Jim Henson tried like 10 times to get like puppets on TV in a way that would stick and like it never would and then one time
[00:39:24] it was the Muppets and it's like this is one of the best momentum that momentum is like again case in point I had to read the name Seth Rogan earlier because his studio was involved with the Muppets because he likes the Muppets and I guess is gonna have a shot at running
[00:39:54] the Muppets and I'm sure he likes them but like he's already got his stuff he likes puppets and the way we all like puppets is when you see a little fuzzy guy you think he's alive and like this seems like a a trinket in the Seth Rogan vertical more than uh like a big plan this is what like we need like if they really are serious about this you're gonna find some freaks who love puppets and here's what you're gonna do
[00:40:23] you're gonna let them make new Muppets now this is a double-edged sword because the worst part of that Jason Siegel Muppet movie is that he made a main character Muppet named Walter who had no traits nobody liked him now here's the thing you also are going to hire sketch writers sketch comedy writers to write good sketches and then you're gonna put some of the new characters in that and then if they
[00:40:53] flop you don't see that fucker again it's take him out back and shoot him yeah it's like the guy from 30 Rock who was the Canadian silver man who joined the cast and he was gonna be a main character and then people didn't really like him very much and then he stopped being in the show like you can just do that like you can just try stuff but also at the same time like but but it requires a freak it requires like a passionate person who is not
[00:41:23] like triangulating like what archetypes are we not you need someone who thinks doing a good job is inherently funny I you do like that's what it is it's you have to have someone that's just like I understand that the more I put into the Muppets the funnier it is because it is a beautiful equation of nature also just Muppet Shakespeare like sure easy easy people
[00:41:53] liked Leonardo DiCaprio Romeo and Juliet am I saying that the Muppets need to use the full text of the play no but like they should have guns though like because that was the one where they had yeah their swords were like gats yeah yeah yeah because like there's sword brand gun co like they would have gun speed name their brand
[00:42:22] long sword was the was the rifle because it was long you can do that like again we go back to the classic Muppet Christmas Carol that uses a lot of the text of the Christmas Carol verbatim but also it's the Muppets and they do bits and sketches in the margins this is so fucking easy like what are we doing this can you can knock this out in like two weeks and like the fact that
[00:42:52] they just like don't know what they're locked up on this is so dumb yeah I you're in a mental cage of your own making for sure another point on this I want to sort of reiterate this is a discourse that would come up every so often which is like someone watches a 90s rom-com and they're like holy shit this is really well shot like this is the cinematography is just done with intention despite this being like a middle brow
[00:43:22] film or whatever we got to get back to doing that because it makes the Muppets funnier you understand yes because it makes them it makes them more like real guys like I hit on this earlier yes I hit on this earlier and I think I sort of breezed past it too fast I think maybe this is one of the core things that we need to drill down
[00:43:53] when they start talking you're just like Carmen's real he's real and like yes yes it's the same way when a kid like hands you a pretend phone you take it it's the same magic yes and like it's you you know it's impossible and like you are
[00:44:23] like how did he do that and with the Muppets it's like they're the Muppets it's you know what it is and this is something that I learned from watching a million clips of Penn and Teller fool us on YouTube which is like magic is when you lie about what you're going to do and you do something much easier and you trick the person juggling is where you say I'm gonna do this insanely difficult thing and then you do it exactly as
[00:44:53] described the Muppets are juggling it's like I'm gonna like I am some fucking dude in my hand in what is clearly a piece of felt and in a couple if they are in a feature film shot well lit
[00:45:23] well photographed well with like serious performances in it then the magic of their reel is only super char like they they're fucking and this is again this is why we have to this is his life okay yeah it's just like it's all right please stop
[00:45:54] it's like you might think this is a small role too small for him but if he doesn't work by December 30th he health insurance dude and the episode is just him fucking up audition
[00:46:25] it's him like getting nervous or whatever but the point is it's just him showing his ass so to speak again and again after as the deadline approaches that's television this is so good this is this works this is good anytime sports dude why isn't like Kermit announcing sports games get them in there all the gambling stuff should just be Muppets I don't mean they should be doing gambling I mean like the
[00:46:55] amount of screen space dedicated to gambling should be replaced with Muppets yeah yeah maybe I think you know actually here's a here's a compromise tell me if this is crazy you keep the Muppets in cold storage for now what you do is you find those because there's there's puppet freaks out there there's gotta be you find a couple puppet freaks you find these
[00:47:25] people who want to make puppets and invent gooky characters for them you give you you like a shoestring budget and you're just like let's see what you're made of and they have to do it all from scratch they don't get any IPs it's just like what can you do as puppets here and then and then it's like Danny DeVito joining Always Sunny like if they're good enough
[00:47:55] yes they meet like okay they meet the Muppets meet them and are like you guys have what it takes you're in I like this this is good this is solid because I think having like a strong creative voice that is doing this out of a sick compulsion is sort of required and that obviously you're going to get that if you do sketch sketches because people only write comedy sketches if they
[00:48:45] are art that is done by compulsion is always going to be better than art that is done out of obligation so you got to find some freaks who are compelled like I say sketch comedy writers are always compelled but Seth Rogen is not compelled to make puppet stuff he's just like I remember the Muppets they're great what can I do to make there be more Muppets did his owning the Muppets like create the Jason Siegel one no I
[00:49:31] to say it I know he's talented I know he's produced things that are good so as a producer he has done well he's clearly overthinking it yeah like Tim Robinson probably got some old I think you should leave sketches that didn't go didn't make the cut like throw them the Muppets way imagine Kermit saying what the fuck I hope I don't jack off what is this a fucking circle
[00:50:07] it's just I don't know can I this is not on the Muppet front but it's on the puppet front and I think it's probably the hardest I've laughed at a performance of a puppet related thing can I do there's just like a puppet that interviews people my favorite interview they do with a guy in the street in a park he keeps
[00:50:37] saying please stop putting that camera in my face and then the guy with the puppet walks away as he keeps following him and is just like get that camera out of my face and the puppet is very calmly trying to explain to him that you are in you are walking towards the camera in fact and you could walk in another direction and then we did yeah and as dramatic music goes builds and builds I showed Tom that not as funny as I remember
[00:51:07] unfortunately classic it has the incredible thing that like in the very beginning for like a second the guy looks at the like the cameraman is talking to them and then the puppet responds and the whole rest of the time he's looking at the puppet when he's having and he's like crashing out and getting furious he's like addressing the puppet but do but you see how that reinforces our
[00:51:37] point it's like this guy who I'm going to go on a limb and say doesn't have a lot of acting chops is still forced to engage with the puppet as if it is real like the power of the bit is such that this layman on the street is doing the angles right it's amazing I mean oh my god as long as we're going to talk about like a little bit more risque puppets because I was about to say like you
[00:52:07] can't have the Muppets be like R rated because then you go into Avenue Q territory yes and it's just like they fuck and they sing yes I know exactly what you mean yes the joke can't be can you believe which is the joke of Avenue Q is can you believe the puppets are saying this and I know that there are people who like and I bet there are actually good jokes in there but like I can't get past one of the core jokes being can you believe because like yeah I can it's not funny to me anyway but I will say that was that
[00:52:37] that clip was illustrative but also I just recalled that Triumph the insult comic dog is a puppet it is yes he is so he is so elementally Triumph that I forgot he's a puppet which is hilarious because he is about the worst puppet that ever existed you can see Robert Smeichel's whole body like a lot of the time and also it's like not like it's what are you doing well I'm gonna poop
[00:53:07] on it well I'm gonna poop on it that's a good thing for me to poop on that's a good thing for me to poop on it's shittiness is the appeal right yeah but like the fact that a terrible plastic dog who express emotion via the fucking face and that is being puppeteered poorly by a guy who does not give a shit about puppeteering and you have to treat it as the medium of
[00:53:36] communication because it is because that's Triumph like that's him like he becomes real and so like the fact that that is so powerful is just again like the Muppets are like it's like in a sci-fi story where there's like we are a great space faring race with like cool guns and bombs and stuff but there's an ancient civilization long disappeared and their technology is so far beyond
[00:54:06] what we could even conceive of we can't we look at these artifacts and we don't know what they could possibly mean that is like modern Hollywood with the Muppets they're just like what do I do with this like the fact that's lighting everything every movie is so poorly it's just like what if we put a light on this scene the sort of core reason we did this at all is like is this not one of the most emblematic things of the rot that like
[00:54:36] we have the Muppets ready to rock and everyone's just like but I don't remember how there's nothing to remember you just have to have faith in puppets like just look at Kermit for a little bit I guess like he's nervous that things might go wrong he wants them to go right so bad if you have fear that like the Muppets could go wrong you lack Bushido
[00:55:05] you just do you fucking don't have it Kermit is allowed to do it because he is a Muppet yeah also it's kayfabe it's just like yeah the entertainment industry is in an extremely dark place there's just been that big big merger which means that every single studio that makes every movie is now owned by a mega guy all of those logos on one jpeg make me
[00:55:35] feel like shit like yep and i just so oh i forgot about that studio oh shit yeah yeah oh no cartoons again ever animation gone away because one right wing billionaire free cartoon network and nickelodeon are sister channels for the first time ever that's that's supposed to hate each other they're supposed to be sending bombs to each other's offices yes
[00:56:09] not gonna make anything ever again like there's many reasons to be very terrified and scared about how culture and art is gonna get way worse especially in the mass market but like we all knew this was like the hammer might be falling now but we all knew it was gonna when it
[00:56:39] professional tv writing we didn't make an outline before with what our pitches are gonna be we would not be scared to take on the Muppets we're we're manly men that don't fear scary things like what if the Muppets aren't delightful are you fucking kidding just let the people who do the voices go and like I don't know it's just it's grim
[00:57:09] out there folks you know what the Sundance merger made me legitimately think though like okay one of the four net runner companies is now in place it really made me think that like seeing that I was just like okay there is the everything mega company the other three sectors which are one like manufacturing and
[00:57:47] gun we got gun that's sorted AI and Boston Dynamics need to sort of merge and then that'll be robots and cloning I don't know where we're where we're at with that cloning would imply that anyone liked people enough to make more of I don't know I don't believe it oh my god Joe I think you may have inadvertently stumbled on like
[00:58:16] one of the foundational contradictions of why like cyberpunk didn't have staying power as a genre in as sort of a very popular obviously freaks always like it but like cloning is just not yeah you need interestingly grounded use of cloning is that fucking movie where clones are just made for rich people so they
[00:58:46] could get their organs harvested later like that that is something that would happen but not like mass cloning that like improves society so that is a premise that has been done so many times because it is so interesting it's correct and interesting on its face and yet it has never been translated into an actual good show or movie which show
[00:59:17] I think that that means that there needs to be a Muppets version where they bunch of clones of Kermit and Miss Piggy and we see their felt felt fucking organs get taken out they don't die they're awake and they make a wise crack about it yes yes what are we doing Sam the eagle is the guy who
[00:59:47] runs the cloning company and he harumphs when the clones get a little rowdy Sam eagle is my favorite she is just like okay there's an America bird he's too self serious without being like but like also not ever coming across as anti-American but he's still a goof and a moron I can't believe it's taken me this long to remember so we
[01:00:17] got the sweetest chef on hand literally the funniest thing okay he just cooks in a flurry of things flying around like it's perfect what the fuck else do you need he's got human fucking hands the human see this is the thing you need a freak who is just compelled and it's like the bean counters are like you can't have a puppet of human hands it has to be a puppet and it's like no no no no this one it'll be funnier if
[01:00:47] they're real fleshy hands I swear and it is the Swedish chef just put YouTube videos of him out doing the shtick you know like what are we waiting for how are you gonna crack the Swedish chef you cracked it with the fucking name of the guy those three words are it we're done just make the bits just make the gags it's all gags and bits trying to like
[01:01:16] find some larger system to fit them into is the sign of a sick culture and stupid people especially when the Muppets are in everything spice like you don't have to be worried about like oh how is going to go in anything go in anything go
[01:01:47] in we have TV credits now yeah we're basically the greatest we're the showrunners we're Seth Rogen now I laugh like that now I wrote super bad um hell yeah anyway till next time I've been Tom and Anime Sicko I'm Joe and Anderson I am I I I'm Joe and
[01:02:19] Anime Sickos I've been Tom a sicko you can follow me on blue sky at tom harrison Joe was also a sicko you can follow him