Did Dat Dude Describe Destroyer? - We'll Build Them a Golden Bridge

[00:00:00] Hello Anime Sickos Fans. I was on vacation last week, you'll hear about it in the next episode, but I wasn't able to record an episode on account of that vacation. So I have decided to put on the Anime Sickos feed the debut episode of my side project show that I started a while ago called Did Dat Dude Describe Destroyer?

[00:00:28] It is a show in the vein of such podcasts as You Talking U2 to Me and Are You Talking R.E.M. Re-Me, but about the band Destroyer, in which we go through their discography one album at a time in chronological order.

[00:00:45] I am joined on Did Dat Dude Describe Destroyer by Riley Hopkins, who has been a guest on some classic Sickos episodes. If you like this shit, listen to it. It has its own RSS feed. It's a completely unique show called Did Dat Dude Describe Destroyer?

[00:01:07] It's super good. There's two episodes out now, a third coming out really soon. We got some cool guests coming up in the future. It'll be a lot of fun. If you hate Destroyer, the band, and hate podcasts about music, I apologize. You can skip this one and we'll be back next time.

[00:01:29] And it's the chaperones on jewel-encrusted rooms who called us unprofessional. Deep down they knew, oh, that we were the music lovers. People say they just didn't want it enough. Here the people say they just didn't want it enough.

[00:01:56] Oh, but we were the music lovers. Hello. Hello. Hello. We are the music lovers. Folks, what is this? What are you listening to? What did you turn on? This is Did Dat Dude Describe Destroyer, an incredible podcast that's gonna be so good,

[00:02:22] where we take a comprehensive look at the discography of the artistic imp, Dan Behar, best known for his band, Destroyer. I am Tom Harrison. You may recognize me from other podcasts. And if you know about other podcasts, you will certainly know our co-host.

[00:02:47] Hi. Hello. I'm Riley Hopkins. I'm from the other podcasts. You can, in fact, find me on Blue Sky at Bad Fucking Podcasts. But I promise you they're good. Yeah. See, actually, you know, this is a good reason why you're the perfect co-host for The Destroyer show. Because one thing that you'll know about Dan Behar, if you read his lyrics, if you learn about his behavior, and especially if you read interviews with him,

[00:03:16] is that he is, like, so afraid of success and so afraid of appearing arrogant about his art. Everything he says about his previous music is to the effect of, like, man, I really wrote some dog shit, didn't I? And, well, that's not true. He wrote incredible tunes, but that's just his sort of aura.

[00:03:45] Yeah, it's easier to deflect and be like, well, I've never made anything of value to this thing I've made just now. Because everything, you know, if you're building, if you're building steps that go up, you know, the only step that matters is the one that gets you to the next floor. This is true. This is true. I would disagree with him on that. And also, I will say that I am really condensing a lot of things into one cartoonish caricature.

[00:04:11] The good news for that is that there's now a podcast that will uncondense it, perhaps over a very long format. Extremely long. And if you're wondering where we got this idea, I will not split hairs, folks.

[00:04:28] I am stealing the format of you talking you to to me and are you talking REM re me and you talking talking heads to my talking head and you spring and Springsteen on my bean all by Scott Aukerman and Adam Scott. I didn't know that last one existed. I'm sitting up now. I'm sitting up. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're all great, dude. And it's like, folks, it's exactly the same format.

[00:04:56] They do an album per episode in chronological order. Another thing that the fucking Scots do on their show that I'm stealing is they do like a jokey call to interview the, you know, the topic of the. Of course, them being celebrities, sometimes they do it. Not always. Bruce Springsteen never, never went on. But I'm just like, and I hate to toot my own horn, bro.

[00:05:25] It's not impossible that we could get Dan on this. If you could find an agent, then you could message it and get it through. You know what I mean? And you just have to write an email like a person and not like you, not like a pre prompted nonsense and say, I would like to talk to you about your music. I am not a fan freak, but I am a big fan. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we could definitely. I think if not, Dan, Nick Bragg, longtime lead guitarist.

[00:05:53] We're so far from Nick Bragg being part of the band because it's going chronologically. But you'll learn. You'll learn why it would be important to have him on. That's another thing. Talk about will learn. So I was having trouble finding a co-host for this podcast for a number of reasons. You messaged me with such a desperation that I could tell I was like number 10 on the list. And it's because I tweeted about music earlier that day. Bro, yeah.

[00:06:22] And you're like, O'Reilly listens to music. Dude, it is insane how terrified people are to talk about music. People who will like, for example, Joe Anderson, go on and on for hundreds of hours about silly bullshit with absolutely no trepidation.

[00:06:45] The second there's music brought up, people get this like, if I say the wrong thing, I'm going to go to jail. I'm going to get an F in music. And like, I don't like talking about movies or TV or any of that shit. But music is the thing I'm like, well, I know a little bit about that. I like, I can wrap my head around that. That's what makes sense to me. That's what I want to talk about. Do you know about chords? I mean, like, I know. I do.

[00:07:14] I got my guitars right over there. Yeah. I like, I used to play in a punk band. You know what I mean? I don't know. That doesn't mean anything. Exactly. That's it. I was a rhythm guitar in a punk band. And so that means I have like a base knowledge, which is enough. Give, give anyone two weeks and they can do that. No, what I'm talking about is like sometimes, because we do also Tom's Record Club, which is a sub show of the Anime Signals podcast, which is my main concern.

[00:07:44] Every once in a while, the people in the discord will be talking about a song on the topic for that episode. Episode. And they'll be like, I really like this part in 233 where it resolved from a sixth to the tonic. And I'm like, you can fucking tell. I don't know what that shit means. I mean, I know what the tonic means, but like you asked me to listen to a song and notice which one it is like art. I'm sorry. I'm but a mortal man. I do not know spells, bro.

[00:08:13] This is what I like. I listen to a podcast called Strong Songs, which is one of those guys, Kirk Hamilton, being so enamored with a piece of music that he will talk about it at length and then be like, and here's each track of it. And here I am rebuilding it. And oh, did you know in Under Pressure? Do you hear that little sound in the background? That's a baritone sax heavily modulated. And I'm like, this is fun. I would never know this, but I love fucking unearthing shit and learning that stuff.

[00:08:41] And I don't have like a, I don't know music theory, but I took a lot of like history of music classes and a lot of art interpretation shit. I can interpret art. That's easy. And that's the shit I like to do. And so giving me like a weird fucking auteur to go through their, their musical lineage. Fascinating.

[00:09:08] A fascinating little, little, little, little, little morsel. I am excited to go on and learn. That'll be beautiful. I'm so pleased. So just to rewind a little, I'm glad that you immediately put the pieces together. It's like I tweeted about music early today. That's why I'm getting this. Cause I was like, okay, it can't be Joe. Joe is not interested. He's made it very clear. I don't want to talk about music on the podcast and I'm not going to force him to because it wouldn't be funny. So I'm like, okay, who do I have?

[00:09:38] Who I have comedic rapport with? Oh, a lot of people. Being on Anime Sickness for 200 some episodes, 250 some. It's like, we have a lot of guests who we really clicked with. A lot of homies, a lot of podcasting homies. Like I have to pick a little litter. Who likes Destroyer? Fuck! Nobody! Watching the guy at the other end of the guest table, like they bolt their hands and go

[00:10:05] It's like, I guess there you could say, and I think maybe we will as a guest for one episode, have some Destroyer naysayers on for fun. But if one of the two hosts doesn't like the main topic, that's not gonna, there's no legs. That dog ain't gonna hurt. You can't just sit there and have a guy who hates shit on the show where he has to hate shit all the time. That's not gonna be pleasant.

[00:10:31] I have two tracks from Destroyer's long history. How long will it be? I'll tell you when the first album came out, when we start fucking talking about it. Who knows how long from now. There are two tracks that I'm liking. These are the tracks where if someone says, I've never heard of them, which is by far the most common response,

[00:10:57] I will say, listen to these two, and if you don't like either of these, we have nothing more to discuss. Like, if these don't get you grooving, like, well, it's all downhill from there. I will not say what they are. I will save that for when they come up naturally, and I'll be like, and this is one of the special songs. And you'll go, wow, listener. But I sent you them, too. What were your thoughts? I fucking like it. I love art pop.

[00:11:25] Like, I am a person who basically likes any genre of music. I think that art pop is something that is very enjoyable to me. I love when you have a kind of soft, not soft, that's the wrong word here. I love when you have that kind of, like, modal-ass, like, little beat, like, kind of grooving through, having a vibe. It's a good cooking dinner music in a way. You know what I mean?

[00:11:53] It's a good I'm just existing music. And that sounded good as hell, and I like it. One of the biggest insults anyone has ever told me in my life is that they came into a room where I was standing there and, you know, cooking breakfast. And they were like, yeah, you look like a guy who would like bleachers. And I was like, all right, well, go fuck yourself. Like, okay. Yeah, I am. And at the time, this was before a lot of the jack-handed on back.

[00:12:18] Oh, that's really good. Destroyer do have that vibe. They just gotta be vibing. I like it. Which I'm like, it's a fun thing to work in because it's where, like, someone who really, it's where someone who does sniff their own farts can do something interesting and layer a bunch of shit on. And if they don't, that's even more compelling because, like, well, what are you doing this for? And that's interesting.

[00:12:47] And so, like, listening to those, I was like, cool. Yeah, these both rule. I'm gonna, you're like, don't listen to anything else. Okay. I deleted the albums off my computer. Yeah. Yeah. You were like, what album should I download first? I'm like, bro, I'm thinking of this purely from a podcast quality standpoint. I want you to listen to only the topic. I want this to be, I want the thing that we're discussing to be the only thing you've heard so far.

[00:13:15] Go through the journey with me as though, because I'm the Destroyer super fan. I should talk about my experience with Destroyer. Before you do, can I actually, I need to issue a call out post. I did some math here. I went back to check what day you messaged me. I went to see what music post I sent on Blue Sky that day. You didn't even like it. You didn't even realize. You saw that and said, like, I guess, and threw it on the pile.

[00:13:44] And you're like, oh, oh, that's the only thing on the pile. Uh-oh. Fuck off. What is a more real fucking symbol of the liking of a post? What is more real, Riley? Me being like, would you like to create a long-term collaborative piece of art with me? Transformative, you might say.

[00:14:11] Or, uh, here's a plus one on the number. What's the answer? Both of those are true. However, it was just, how can you not slam the volume up when the keychain happens and sleep beyonds? That's the way it is. Are you even alive? That's the most. I mean. How could you deny it? That's true. I mean, I'll give that a like. Thanks. No, hey, I really appreciate that. Now this is equity. This is solving problems.

[00:14:40] Tell me about your history with Destroyer. Amanda, I found out about 19 days ago. So here's the thing about Destroyer is that in the mid-2000s, when I was in the most important time of any person's musical development, which is to say high school, there was the blog rock movement. Do you recall this? Are you familiar with it? Bits and pieces. I know of what you were.

[00:15:10] I know of what you're talking about. At that point in my life, I was very much a pop punk person. I was getting all my music stuff from Fuse at the time. You know what I mean? Not a pitchfork goer to her. Not a pitchfork. Not a stereo gum. However, I do. I do. I do partake. I would be in groups with these people and I would have them dilute what they found down to me. And I'd go, I saw a really cool music video the other day. That's pretty surreal. That's pretty real.

[00:15:37] So of that, in that scene, you had a lot of big names. You had Wolf Parade. Everyone loves Wolf Parade. You had Frog Eyes. There's a lot of bands with wolf in the name. Wolf Parade, I think the top one. And then you had your Destroyer. And I listened to Destroyer once in a while. I thought the Blog Rock guys were pretty good. You know?

[00:16:08] I, like you, was not primarily listening to them. I was listening to punk and post-punk. I was listening to Lightning Bolt and Unwound. That kind of good shit. I was listening to fucking The Stiff Little Fingers. Just some great stuff. And, like, because, you know, I didn't have anything else going. I was listening to Mission of Burma. Mission of Burma came back and was putting out new records at the time that I bought at Borders. Can you believe it?

[00:16:37] And every once in a while, I'd put on one of these Blog Rock albums that was getting a good review. And I'd be like, pretty nice. And then that would be that. And then years went on. Destroyer in 2011 put out an album that was unreal in its goodness. That really hit with me. I was like, wow. I can't believe Destroyer is still around. Because at this point, the Blog Rock guys were gone.

[00:17:07] I think Wolf Parade was done. New pornographers were sort of, like, washed. I don't know. When was the last time you heard about them? I don't know. Their name I recognized. You said Destroyer. Then you said the new pornographers. I was like, ah. Yeah. And so, I mean, that was actually the first way that I heard about Destroyer is that Dan Behar, the main singer-songwriter of Destroyer, is in, big quotes, in the new pornographers.

[00:17:34] I say that because, as we may learn, as we discuss the Destroyer's debut LP, Dan is really not an instrumentalist. He does not know how to play actual instruments very well. He is a singer-songwriter. You're telling me this one? That's bad. I, in my notes here, I'm like, I think I was having trouble deciding if it was a bit or if it was honest to God, like, we'll get into it. We'll get into it. We'll get into it.

[00:18:04] But, so, like, he doesn't play anything in the new pornographers. And he doesn't sing on the songs that aren't his songs. And he doesn't tour with them. He just shows up. He shows up with three or four songs for every album. And he's like, this is, these are my contributions. And he sings those and then goes home. Is new pornographers like a Brockhampton that I didn't know?

[00:18:33] They're like, they're like, just like, we're 19 dudes who just kind of exist in a space together? Bro, no, no, no. It is a band with a strong, central lineup, two lead singers. I mean, like, any long-going band, there's some churn. But, like, no, they're, like, locked in. Except that three or four songs on every album are fucking Dan Behar songs that he sings.

[00:19:01] And it's not explained any more than it's just, like, isn't it nice to have some of Dan's songs on the records? And, like, we'll get to that when we get to that chronologically. But my answer is yes. Fascinating. I learned about Dan, Dan Behar, from the new pornographers. Then he got to Destroy, blah, blah, blah. But that, yeah, there was that big hit album. Not hit. You know what I mean? You said a blog rock band. I know it's not a hit. Yeah.

[00:19:30] There was that big album in 2011. I'm like, oh, okay. This is, like, I'm glad they're still around. And, like, this one, like, it really is really good. And then they would put out an album every couple years. And I'd be like, oh, Destroyer. Okay, okay, Destroyer. I'm like, this is pretty good. I like this. I like this. And then I saw them live supporting Poison Season. I'm like, damn, this band really cooks live.

[00:19:55] And I don't know exactly when it was, but sometime within the last five years, I realized that I have, since I was a teenager, periodically gone on Destroyer kicks. Or I'm just like, oh, you know who I remember is Destroyer. Let me listen to Destroyer.

[00:20:16] And, like, now in the fullness of time, being able to go across this 20-year discography, I'm like, you know, I never thought I'd say this, but I think Destroyer is one of my favorite bands of all time. Hell yeah. Just by pure, like, high batting average, high on-base percentage. They take a lot of walks. They're a real producer. It doesn't look good on the stat card.

[00:20:44] Like, it doesn't, like, there's something about them. They don't seem showtime, but if you look at the numbers, if you really look at it. If you look at the winds above replacement, that's where your eyebrows go up. You're like, whoa, how did this happen? They have, I mean, okay, and I'll tell you these are the reasons why. This is my sort of pitch on Destroyer for you, the listener. And that's honestly why I'm doing this. Well, no, I'm doing it because it's fun for me.

[00:21:09] But my goal is to get at least one more, you fuckers, to be a big Destroyer fan. Riley, I hope you are that one. I very well might be. I am interested. I have heard four other Destroyer songs outside of this album. The two you sent me, the one you used for the theme, and one that came up on Shuffle when the album ended. And I'm like, well, I really like all those. So I'm excited. They hit you with a real, YouTube music hit you with a true banger.

[00:21:37] That is a good Destroyer track. I paused it in 10 seconds in because I was like, oh, shit, I'm not supposed to listen anymore. No, no, it's good. You can listen to that one. It just kicks ass. I won't say what it is. I'll never tell. Okay, so here's my pitch on Destroyer. Their first album that we're discussing today came out in 1996. So they have had, I think, a 30-year, 30-year exactly, yeah, 30-year career of putting out albums.

[00:22:06] How many albums have they put out? Oh, you sent me a spreadsheet. I saw this. They have released 15 albums in that 30 years. So among the blog rockers, I think they by far have the longest and most consistent career, both in quality and in just like they're putting an album out every two years.

[00:22:29] Also, I say they when I discuss Destroyer and a lot of people will say he, meaning Dan Behar, because he is the front man. He looks cool. He's got the big, crazy hair. I haven't seen an image of Dan here. I'm going to look up Dan Behar young. Dan Behar unboxing. He's old now on account of how time works and he looks old. But like young Dan Behar was like fuckable.

[00:23:01] I'm ready. Yeah, no, he looks like the kind of on tour that would play this. He looks like that kind of musician. That's also a nice shirt. He got that big bushy hair. He kind of looks morose and tired all the time. Like he's just been thinking about a lot of poems. Yeah. And they really made him feel tough about how things are. Here's how he looks like now that he's like in his 50s.

[00:23:30] The time is progressed. So kind of the same. But kind of the same. There's like an actor that he looks like now, but kind of the same, but very much like English teacher who is in the midst of a divorce and crashing out about it. But everyone is like, holy shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He'd write that. He'd write a literary fiction novel about an English professor who has an affair with one of his students. Yeah. But people will be like grit their teeth and be like, but some of the prose is really good.

[00:24:00] Unfortunately, he's got some bangers in there. He's got. Yeah, he's got. He doesn't have a sharp a jaw. I mean, this happens to all. This is happening to me as we speak. As you age. I'm watching it. I'm watching it. You get the wiggly. You get the wiggly neck. I listen. That's what the beard's for is that I don't have to look at my chin becoming a gradient. I don't have to like soak that in. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. People call Destroyer a solo project. And it's not.

[00:24:29] I mean, it is on the album we're talking about today, which we'll get into. But like. I would say that there are. I'm going to say in descending order of importance. Five like pillars of Destroyer. We'll get into them when they become relevant. But obviously Dan Behar is number one. Number two. And I would say almost equal to Dan Behar is John Collins, who plays bass a lot of the time.

[00:24:59] But what he really is, is a producer. And if you listen to any of the other Destroyer albums and go, wow, this sounds really great. This sounds like a professional band. This sounds like a really good sound, really good mixing. It's because of John Collins. Even the even the albums that he does not play on, because he doesn't play bass all the time. There's some albums that he has another bass player.

[00:25:27] They're all produced by John Collins. I think they're actually produced by John Collins and David Carswell, who sometimes plays instruments, but very rarely. But, you know, there's two of them, but one of them plays in the band. So John Collins is one of the matters. Dave, I don't care. Number three, that's going to be Nick Bragg, Nicholas Bragg, the lead guitarist. He comes on, I believe, on Rubies, which we'll get to.

[00:25:57] But well, I'll get into this as I continue my pitch. But there's a lot of different sounds Destroyer has gone on throughout the years. Things change things that they leave things behind. And the sort of interesting thing, the through line is always obviously Dan, Dan Behar's lyrics and his voice. But also like Nick Bragg has a very weird and unique lead guitar tone.

[00:26:24] So even in albums where they have sort of left guitar music behind, there will just be parts where he comes in. And it's like, oh, my God, it's the guitar from Rubies here. What an incredible juxtaposition. I forget who the other two pillars were. Oh, it's the horn section. We'll get into the horns later. Justin, Matt, I'm not going to say their names. There's horns later. So the five pillars are three pillars. Yeah.

[00:26:53] And they average out to four pillars like Manny Manny Sickos. You know, it makes so much sense. I can't believe I disrespected you. I mean, to literally quote a lyric from this album, threes to divide and five to conquer. What does that mean? Who knows? And the other thing about Destroyer, and this is sort of what is implied in the name.

[00:27:18] Obviously, the name of the band Dan picked because how could it have been that you get to the year 1995? Rock and roll has been around for 30, 40 years and no one has named their band Destroyer. Not even a metal band. It is crazy. Without one EP. The closest you get is George Thurgood and the Destroyers. That doesn't count. There is prior to this, no band named Destroyer. I love this for two reasons.

[00:27:46] One, is it possible to recommend Destroyer to someone who you think would like them because they think you're recommending a metal band and they go, I don't listen to that kind of stuff. And I'm like, I know I'm fucking it's this is wimp music. The reason I listened to it is because you said their name was a swear. I was like, oh, something crunchy. And I was like, oh, no, no, no. So I think and I think that the story has changed throughout the years.

[00:28:16] But the Destroyer name refers to destroying the traditions of what came before, both in terms of the rock scene as a whole. And also as their own career went on, their sound. There are albums that are insane outliers that sound like nothing else in their discography. And also like they that album in 2011 that I said was so great.

[00:28:44] Part of what made it so striking is it represented like a complete abandonment of everything they had done before in terms of their music. This completely new era. They're always doing weirdo shit. I love it. And I like that. I like weirdo shit. I said something today that you said was insane. But I think is a I compare them to another band that I think does weirdo shit.

[00:29:15] And I think that there is a you have such a pain to look on your face. When I saw you say that, I wanted to scream as loud as I could. Listener, I said that this album we listen to today is an infinitely more listenable Yankee Hotel Foxtrot.

[00:29:40] Now, infinitely, infinitely folks, you could listen to songs such as Jesus, etc. War on War, trying to break my heart. You could listen to them. You would rather listen to Leaving Little Fiddler Alone by Destroyer for eternity, for an infinite amount of time.

[00:30:07] Rather than listen to Jesus, etc. once. I think and I respect Jeff Tweedy. I think that sonically that album is beautiful. I think the stuff they're doing in production on there is good. But it is a tough fucking listen. And the thing I find toughest about it... Wilco? Yes, Wilco! Yes! What's tough about it? It is so fucking smooth!

[00:30:37] It's really... I'll tell you exactly what's tough about it. Jeff Tweedy's voice. And I think from Rip, off Rip, this same kind of like... I wrote this down so I could get my exact things correct here. I'm going to read off my notes. I wrote notes today. Gimme, gimme, gimme. Okay. Let's see here. The reason I refer to this as a more listenable Yankee Hotel Foxtrot is because I think the... Because I'm insane.

[00:31:05] I think the popular sensibilities that fight through the noise and the singer's delivery are more of a life raft than Jeff Tweedy's lyrics. I am glad you showed me songs by these guys that were deeper in because they kind of... Our pot shit is extremely what I'm here for. I can hear the bones of that in this but filtered through I am in my college museum and some dude was really feeling himself. That, to me, is in itself more interesting. I can grab onto the bits of like there's something happening in how this person's building a song

[00:31:33] and how they are the hook that fights their way out, that fights its way out, that catches on me more than having to listen to the male Phoebe Bridgers. Okay. So what I'm hearing is... Correct me if I'm interpreting this wrong. The fact that some of the melodies on We'll Build Them A Golden Bridge sound like they could

[00:31:58] be good if you got rid of all the shit that sucked makes it infinitely more listenable than one of the classic alt-country pop albums. I tried to get through Yankee Hotel. I did another music podcast like this with a homie. We all brought three out. We all brought an album. We all presented it. One of them brought Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. It did take me multiple listens to get through Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. What are you talking about?

[00:32:24] It's unreal to me that you mentioned Jeff Tweedy's voice as a sticking point because... Bro, do you know you're listening to fucking Destroyer? I know. I know. But here's the thing. The weird little baby whine that this guy does works for me. I think... Okay. Well, as much as I... And let me say again. Let me say again.

[00:32:48] The Yankee Hotel Foxtrot is a beautiful album with good lyricism and is a sonic... It's so interesting sonically. The first song sounds like walking around Chicago. You know what I mean? Yeah. It hits. That's why I like it. Where that sounds like walking around Chicago. This sounds like you're at a party and a guy's going through it in the corner. But everyone's telling me like, hold the fuck on. What is that guy doing? Hey, hold on. That guy might have something. That guy's got something.

[00:33:19] What's got you so down, man? Riley, you're driving me crazy because you're saying things... They're saying sentences that if I just listen to the sentence, I'm like, dude, I so get it. I'm there. I'm there. I'm nodding. Yes. I'm like, this is real. This is... Riley's cooking. And then you say, comma, therefore, this is infinitely is the word that's killing me. I listened to this twice today.

[00:33:47] And like, I just think... I just find chunks of Genki Hotel Foxtrot fully like, I can't... This is not music I would find a place for. But like... And that is on me. That's not saying the music's bad. That's saying it goes past me on the river of life.

[00:34:14] And I just sit in the mighty Mississippi and I let it flow by. But sometimes a branch hits me and then I... Oh, what's this? What's this? There's something here. I am in the river and I'm sinking and I'm holding on to a tree branch from a flood. And it sucks. But like, there's good in here. Well, I... I said I would not believe it. If you could contextualize that statement in a way that made sense. And I was right.

[00:34:44] I don't believe this shit at all. I have for this in preparation downloaded Wilco's Genki Hotel Foxtrot so that I can, at strategic points, stop the clip of the Destroyer song we're playing and say, wouldn't you rather listen to that for an infinite amount of time rather than this and play the Wilco song? Yeah, I'll hear War on War and then that's infinitely what that is. It's just that little chunk of that song over and repeat one for the rest of the time. Oh my God.

[00:35:14] You're locked in here with me now. That's true. That's true. I did this on purpose. You said earlier that you were nothing if not someone who said wild shit to spark a response. And, um, yeah. I'm not like a troll, but I am like deeply someone who likes to get people to react bigly. And you are, to quote the lyrics of this album, always willing to precipitate the backlash. And it's fun. It's fun. It's fun.

[00:35:44] And also I get to say the things I want to say and people, people who, and yell at them, they go, fuck yeah, it's in points. Which means then they have to, they have to confront the rest of what I said and go like, oh man, is life a beautiful tapestry where we all have different thoughts and feelings and take things in differently? No, no, no. My rankings for albums are right and everyone else is wrong. That's it. Uh, no, life is a tapestry. It's funny.

[00:36:09] I, we, I do need to talk about the voice because that is, uh, I talked about asking people who would be a good co-host, do you like Destroyer? And that was a, uh, losing proposition for one of two reasons. Uh, one is I've never heard of them before and I don't want to do a music podcast. I'm like, oh, okay. But, uh, as much as the primary opinion on Destroyer worldwide is, I don't know what that is.

[00:36:35] Uh, I think the second most popular opinion is, oh, they're pretty good. And then right under that is, if you make me listen to that fucking asshole's voice for one second, I'm going to shoot you with a gun. He has this weird ass nasally voice that he does, he does something. He's doing a voice. Yeah. In addition to singing, he's doing, like, he is from Canada. He's a Canadian guy.

[00:37:05] He only had a place he ever lived with Spain because he has, at Behar, he's got a Spanish, uh, background. He sings in a British accent half the time. I mean, there's no way around it. It's a very peculiar, he's kind of the Nicki Minaj of his time. He's utterly fascinating. I thought, again, I mentioned this earlier. I thought for certain, I was like, there are two things happening here.

[00:37:30] One, this guy is just now learning to do stuff and to said, I'm going to make an album while I learn. But the second option is, is I'm going to make an album. I'm going to make music I think is good while restricting myself to only use shit that sucks. And I thought it was that second one. And I was like, sure, that's bad. That's weird. But that's fascinating. But you seem to be telling me that it is the first one. Yeah.

[00:37:58] I think this is a good segue to transition the focus of the podcast away from general yapping to the topic, which is Destroyer's debut LP. We'll build them a golden bridge. The vital statistics on this is it was recorded in 1995 when Dan Behar was 23 years old alone

[00:38:23] in his home on a four track recorder, much like the classic Bruce Springsteen album, Nebraska. He grew up with a hole in his floor. Oh, my God. Folks, if you haven't seen the terrible trailer to the terrible Bruce Springsteen biopic

[00:38:49] that cuts out Clarence Clemens, his light, his son losing him was like losing the rain cuts him out. He's not necessary for this story. He has. He grew up with a hole in this floor. What does that tell you? Think about that. That's a metaphor, eh? It's crazy that they kept making biopics after they made Walk Hard. You know, like Walk Hard is kind of like you could wrap it. Yep. We shot it. I mean, I mentioned this one. Chef Stormer and I talked about Walk Hard.

[00:39:19] But I'm like, the only thing that would really make that Nebraska Bruce Springsteen biopic worth it is if there is a scene where he's in a bar and someone just says the name Johnny 99 times throughout the scene. And every once in a while, he's like, that's so annoying what that guy did. And then finally he finishes and he's like, that guy said Johnny 99 times. Johnny 99. Johnny 99.

[00:39:48] That's why they caught me 99. That would have. They didn't do that. What was I talking about? He was 23 years old when he made this album. Bruce Springsteen, when he made Nebraska, was. Yeah, be careful because you're about to look up pictures of young Bruce Springsteen. And that's dangerous. You got to be careful. My tongue swaggling. Yummy, yummy. Gimme. Bruce Springsteen was.

[00:40:17] I'm not going to do the math. He was over 30. He had spent over a decade. The only thing he did was become like the physical manifestation of rock and roll in Earthrealm. So you can imagine that when. Bruce was just 24 years old when he wrote Bordeaux Run. Yeah. So as much as I love Dan Behar, I think that at this point he definitely didn't have Bruce's stuff.

[00:40:47] This is the only. The only record where Destroyer is a solo act. Every single noise you hear is Dan himself, him own self playing everything. It was released in July 1996. 35 minutes, 55 seconds, 16 tracks on this sucker. A lot of short songs.

[00:41:14] And it was released on a label called Tinker Recordings, which I never heard of. What is this label? I did some research. It is a Canadian label from British Columbia. That makes sense. He's from Vancouver. Dan is famously a Vancouver music scene guy. You've mentioned. Yes, yes, yes. So I will now read you all of the albums that according to Discogs.com, which I think is as thorough as we're going to get all of the albums that Tinker Recordings has put out.

[00:41:44] OK. One, we'll build them a Golden Bridge Destroyer. Two, various Tinker compilation. Three, City of Daughters, Destroyer. Now, hold on. Wait a second. Is that it? Was that the end sentence? Was that the last one? No, no, no. There's four. One Less Summer by Blowhole. I've never heard of this band.

[00:42:11] And then after releasing those albums, they do not release any more albums for, let me do some quick math here. 17 years. The next album they put out is the self-titled LP by a band named Kensington Gore, which is fronted by Stephen Wood, who played lead guitar in Destroyer for a while. Awesome. So, OK.

[00:42:40] The point I'm trying to make is that when this was released, I'm putting like quotes around it because I think the release was like there were a hundred copies of this in Vancouver. And that was it. And that's end sentence. And then people are like, I'm going to blog about this. This is going to be the thing I make blogs about.

[00:43:01] I want to make it so clear that I was looking for any reason not to have this be the first episode topic. I was like, is there is there some justification that this isn't the first Destroyer album?

[00:43:20] And there might have been if there wasn't in 2006 a CD re-release for the mass market and saying, hey, it's the it's the first Destroyer record. It used to be so hard to get, but now it's everywhere. Do you like it? Do you want it? Does this make you feel good to listen to?

[00:43:47] And this is a time where it's I looked up some other things that came out in July of 1996 here. I just want to kind of hand those to you as well. You know, what were its sonic peers? You know what I mean? What music came out next to it? Fiona Apple's title, Nos, it was written. Alice in Chains, Unplugged. And then it says here a little thing called the Super Mario 64 orchestral soundtrack. Yo!

[00:44:15] And so you're like, no, hold on, excuse me. I have to put those over here, Mr. Kondo. I have to go listen to Destroyer right now. It is. I'm not going to say my opinion on the full album until we get to the end. But I think you could tell by my tone and the fact that I was just talking about how I was scrambling for any reason not to do it.

[00:44:43] I end in a place with this where I think, I guess, no, we're not talking about our overall opinions. Yep. Yeah. It's what other things, what other fun facts can I say about this album before we get into it? Here, I have, you know, for the future of this podcast, I've made a list of a lot of Dan Behar's interviews with the press. And, you know, they range from all across his career.

[00:45:12] By the time he was giving interviews a lot, it was years since we'll build the McGolden Bridge and he hadn't made anything like that. And he never makes anything like this again, period. But I mean. Frankly, that's kind of great to hear. Yeah. I thought it was infinitely more listening. Never mind. It is. The point is, it's difficult to find instances where he is speaking publicly about we'll build them at McGolden Bridge.

[00:45:40] But I found one where he was talking about, he's promoting the album Have We Met, which came out in 2020 or 2021. I don't remember exactly which, but no, it's one of those two because it was the pandemic record where they had to record it separately. And the sort of fun fact about Have We Met is that Dan recorded all of his vocals, his final vocals solo in his kitchen and sent them off and said, I hope they end up in good songs.

[00:46:10] And I'll spoil my opinion on Have We Met. Yeah, they did. But when discussing this is from a Stereogum interview about Have We Met discussing that process, quote Dan Behar. I'm a shitty engineer. And as recordings, the recordings for his vocals as recordings, they're the most piss poor things that I've done since the four track record in 1995. We'll build them a McGolden Bridge.

[00:46:40] OK, well. Yeah. Um, he and here's the thing. When you look at the guy, he does have the vibe of like everything I've ever done is dog shit. I am going to keep chasing perfection for the rest of my life. You want to know something? This is I if you don't if you're not seeing I think at this point, listener, if you haven't turned it off, you should just look up what Dan Behar looks like.

[00:47:08] Um, and also to just get a better aura, a better feel of what his sort of vibe is. Let me tell you about the live Destroyer show. First of all, the band, as I said, fucking cooks. They're all the they have the the perfect balance that makes a musician like fucking killer, which is to say these guys are all professionals. They all have been working, making their income from music for decades.

[00:47:38] But also no one fucking knows who they are. Nobody cares about anything they do. And thus they that is the fucking that's like why all the jazz musicians in the world are so fucking good. It's exactly that they're playing music constantly. It's their entire life. But there's no no force from the outside world is pushing them to do anything because no one fucking cares about them. So the band fucking cooks.

[00:48:06] Dan does not play any instruments. He used to play acoustic guitar live. And I think he still does solo shows now and then. But he doesn't play any instruments. What he does is he comes out on stage with his microphone and a big drink and he stands in the front and almost the entire show, his eyes are fully closed. And when he's singing, he will sort of be bent over and he's got eyes fully closed.

[00:48:35] Now, we listlessly moving back and forth and he will sing and it'll sound perfect. And when he is done with the verse or chorus and there's an instrumental break, he will squat down and sip his drink and look away as though he would rather be anywhere else.

[00:49:00] When his part comes back up, he slowly gets up and sings the next part perfectly. What an interesting critter. There are times in this album when listening to it where I was like, I think if this man had to admit he had a genuine emotion, he would kill himself.

[00:49:25] Like it has like it has like such such like I can't let my friends know I feel like like about it. But he wants so badly to feel is there's I'm fascinated by this description of a live performance. It just I don't know how he has existed making music this long in a world before he could just release it as a SoundCloud rapper and not have to like interact with anybody. You know what I mean? Yes, I do indeed.

[00:49:54] In fact, this is this brings up a I mean, I'm talking about how he's so self-deprecating. This is a line that I remembered very vividly because it is from the press cycle of his newest album that came out last year. So I read this interview when it came out and I read this and I'm like, oh, my God, this is his whole life. This is his whole fucking identity summed up.

[00:50:19] Quote from Dan Behar in an Vulture.com interview promoting the 2025 album Dan's Boogie. Quote, I'm not a good musician and I'm not a classic singer and I don't write books, though. I'm loath to say it. I probably identify myself as a singer more than anything else in the world. So it would be impossible to picture me abandoning that, even though it's ludicrous that that's what I've ended up doing with my life. You're a songwriting guy, man. You write.

[00:50:49] Dan, if you're listening to this, you're so good. Just be. Do you know? The secret third goal of this is a you don't know your beautiful situation for Dan. Hey, Dan, take those glasses off. Oh, my God. Look at his jaw. He's being blocked by his glasses. Just like, man.

[00:51:18] Let's talk about the album. All right. Take me to the album. Take me to the album. I have I have. Like I said earlier, I was taking recordings in my car as I drove for each one. This is the first song released by the band Destroyer, which, mind you, if you forgot, I've been. Trying to convince you they're very good for like an hour. Yeah.

[00:51:44] So it is with a heavy heart that I play track one off of We'll Build Him a Golden Bridge. Revolution.

[00:52:33] Let me let me hit you with what my thoughts were, because this is me. I get in my car this morning. I go, I have to listen to this album before we get to the we get to the show tonight. But before we start podcasting this. So like, all right, let's hit play. I'm like, OK. There is something happening.

[00:53:00] I there's a what I've written here is that there's a thing about revolution is there's a difference between when things are messy and there's no point to it. And when things are messy and it was done that way. You know what I mean? I'm a I'm a I'm a guy who likes a lot of physical art. I'm very into data art, which is like absurdist weird shit done for the sake of being weird, like done for the like, like, like intentionally fucking with what people's expectations are.

[00:53:28] Artistically, there's something about the production and the way that this song is put together that I can tell that something interesting is in there. There is like there is a chestnut in the way that like the the the the verse and the melody is made that I'm like, you have something it's bad out around it. Like I have to chisel out the diamond, but there's something there. There's something listless to it.

[00:53:56] I love the hiccup build at the end of it. Like there's some it gives the vibe that something is going to happen. Does anything happen for the rest of this album? No. No. Every there are three songs that I say are without reservation. Good. I like 16. I like plenty of the songs on the South. Don't get me wrong. What I mean by that is a lot of these songs sound like and this one is a prime example of it.

[00:54:22] Sound like the kind of smaller lo-fi song that you hear before the full band version kicks in. You know what I mean? I mean, it's interesting that you say that because there's two examples later on of exactly that. That's awesome. We'll get to that when we get to that. No, I see what you mean. I think that you are sort of talking around a point that I've written down many, many times in my notes, which is this would be really good if it didn't suck.

[00:54:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why I came into this going like, he must have intended for it to suck, which is an interesting statement. And the thing you're telling me is that he didn't intend for it to suck. So my thesis is wrong. Well, I mean, let us, I want to quote another interview quote about Will Dilden of Golden

[00:55:19] Bridge from the website The Last Donut of the Night. Is he going to say some shit like, I was really that bad? I am that bad and I was that bad. Quote, this is about Will Dilden of Golden Bridge. Quote, Destroyer definitely wasn't a project back then. It's not that it was just me killing time, but it was literally the sound of me learning how to play guitar, only recorded for the world to hear. Ha ha. It's me messing around on borrowed four tracks.

[00:55:45] I think of that time as two phases, one where it's extra indie rock and a second batch of recordings where I was trying to be Sid Barrett in 60s sounded, which paved the way for City of Daughters. There was a year between me recording it and releasing it. In 1996, I was completely over it. I felt like the record didn't represent where I was at at all. There's a germ of what wouldn't come, but it's hard for me to locate the Destroyer aesthetic in that record. And I think that's all we need to say. That's great. Why release it? That's okay.

[00:56:15] I'm glad you say that because to me, this album, if you think of this album as, hey, I'm trying to get a band together and I'm trying to record an album, here is just a rough set of demos. This is Devil Reels. Yeah. Yes. This is like what you play to the lifer studio musicians in Vancouver to be like, you think it would be good for you to be my band? And they're like, yeah, you got some good melodies in here.

[00:56:44] I will take away the shit that sucks and play something good. And then like, we'll really have something. It is unreal to me that they decided to release this as a fucking studio album in quotes. And you tell me that this guy doesn't have an ego in that way. Like, he looks afraid like a rabbit whenever you turn the lights on.

[00:57:07] Like, because I figure you would have to have the hugest ego in the world to put this out. Oh, yeah. I'm shipping this today. It's my first one. There, he also talks in later interviews that like, especially at this point, he did have a huge ego and he was like, I'm going to make like serious art. Like, and I'm going to, I'm going to be an artist and like, I'm going to live the art life.

[00:57:31] And so if you take that, so it's, I hate to compare him to pedophile Woody Allen, but he kind of is a less noxious form of how Orson Welles talked about Woody Allen. If you're familiar with that quote. I'm not familiar with that quote laying on me. Oh, yeah. Okay. Um, Orson Welles. I hate Woody Allen physically. I just like that kind of man. Interviewer. I've never understood why. Have you met him? Oh, yes. I can hardly bear to talk to him. He has the Chaplin disease.

[00:58:01] That particular combination of arrogance and timidity that sets my teeth on edge. Interviewer. He's not arrogant. He's shy. Orson. He is arrogant. Like all people with timid personalities, his arrogance is unlimited. Anybody who speaks quietly and shrivels up in companies. He's unbelievably arrogant. He acts shy, but he's not. He's scared. He hates himself and he loves himself. A very tense situation. It's people like me who have to carry on and pretend to be modest. To me, it's the most embarrassing thing in the world.

[00:58:30] A man who presents himself at his worst to get laughs in order to free himself from his hangups. Everything he does on screen is therapeutic. Damn. Rip him up. But yeah, I think that's this guy. Dan is, I think, the version of this that's like, just like, oh, you, you, I can see why some people wouldn't like you, but I like you. Yeah, because he's the guy you know at a record store.

[00:58:55] Like, he's the, he's the friend of the friend who you buy weed from in 2012. And he works at the vinyl record store. And he's like, you guys ever heard of King Gizzard with the wizard? I'm sorry. Like, you heard of the King Gizzard. We got to get through these fucking songs. There's so goddamn many. This next one is Jay Taylor by Destroyer. And this is the only song in his discography. Well, I don't know. I haven't really listened to City of Daughters and Thief too much.

[00:59:25] So maybe I'm wrong. But as far as I'm aware, the only song in his discography where he does not do the voice. Check this out. Or my friends like Roger McGuinn. Quote, unquote. Little showboat. No, you didn't. I like that synth a lot. I, unironically, I genuinely like that synth. It's, yeah.

[00:59:58] That one sounds like you got a message. I checked my car today. I was in the car, I was like, what the fuck is my, that's on my ring today? Does it fit? You write one, it's not much longer. Three's to divide and five to conquer.

[01:00:27] That static kind of wave crashing is effective to me. And like, that's what I'm saying. It's like, there's artistic decisions made that you're like, if this was playing and you were walking through a college art museum and you heard music in a back room and you kind of walked in to one of those, oh, sorry to cut you off, but I got to play that again. This is, this is something that happens throughout the album and is so fucking indicative of like, this is demos. Don't release this.

[01:00:53] Note that there is absolutely no transition between the verse and the fun in the sun. You're the only one chorus. Listen to this. Just nothing. Just in. Every synth he can find, he's hitting a button on it. Yeah, that's it. You get the gist. I like that.

[01:01:22] Like there, it's in there. It's, it's, it's, it is, it is. I found the shape of a fossil on the cave wall and I can excavate it. Have you ever listened to like Nick Drake? Oh yeah. I love Nick Drake. There's something tender about this song and like this portrayal and other songs on the album. There's something tender and real that is in that same kind of vibe that I, I can, I can see it. I can see it so clearly. And I think that's one of those things.

[01:01:51] That is what draws me to this. I, I think it's, it's, it's really, I, I'm, I'm generally, I really appreciate it. And also at the, uh, in the last, um, the last verse of this really quickly, his voice becomes completely uncompressed and says, never, never. And I'm like, yes, yes, there, there, you're doing something. You, you know what you're doing. Not only is it uncompressed, but he does the, he brings the nasal. He brings the weird British accent.

[01:02:17] And in fact, I will, I have the timing written down and I will play it right now. Something put in. Never, never, never. Top it off. Top it off. There's something about, and like, if I want to start psychoanalyzing a guy that I have never, uh, I've never, this is my first reaction with him. You need to stay with me. I'm not this person. Okay.

[01:02:46] I'm not this guy. I'm not the guy I'm about to be. I recently was reading some Borges. Some who? Borges and I. Jean-Luc, George-Louis Borges. 1960 short story. Borges, you go. I was, I had to read that for a friend for their Christmas podcast. Jesus Christ. And it's about that, like, what is the difference between the actual person and the person that is perceived by everybody, right?

[01:03:15] And to like, look at this at the beginning. And for you to be like, yeah, he's always using this fucking voice. And this is the one that he's not using the voice on. And then he just goes back to it. Then this is the one that I pull out. I'm like, there's something tender here. There's something genuine. And like, then that all going away. I don't know. It's just one of those things that like, I'm intrigued about the adventure in front of us. Because he's got something happening. Yeah. I agree.

[01:03:44] I mean, I will say that. I also came into this with like an art mindset to be like, I need to zone in on this guy. There's something about it that Tom says I can listen to 15 albums of. I have. Okay. So I came into this having never heard we'll build him a golden bridge. Because I knew the reputation was it's some fucking demos. You don't need to listen to that shit. And so I'm like, okay. And I came into this with Destroyer being one of my favorite bands. And one of the reasons Destroyer is so good is that they have incredibly good production. That sounds amazing.

[01:04:14] And so excited for that. And so listening to this made me mad. I will. Okay. You're right. That sometimes the synth sounds are really affecting and beautiful. But I that's like a broken clock being right twice a day. Because when he plays the synth, he is just going through. He was again. Yeah. He's learning. He's just going through every setting he has. And sometimes it sounds like you just got a message. And this part at 152 sounds like dogs barking and farting at the same time.

[01:04:48] He's like clicking every button around him at once. It's like I can imagine a kid sitting in the floor of a daycare with every toys that makes noise sitting around him. He's like, pop it. Cow goes boo. He's just like touching all of them. I mean, and like you can see why this would be useful if you present it to a band. Because you're like, what this means is that at this point, I want a different texture doing a part that's like this. Yes. You know?

[01:05:16] And then a real band is like, we got it and play something good. But we just are stuck with it. Anyway, next up. This is X1 song number three. Smith by Destroyer. Smith by Destroyer.

[01:06:10] Smith by Destroyer. Smith by Destroyer is going to be like, I see what the point Riley's trying to make here. And then they're going to say my point. And they're going to extract it for themselves that they think they thought of it. It's possible. But for me, I'd rather listen to camera than this. Just because it crumbles doesn't make you hungry. The guitar hero wrong note sound is a lot. Your water should be free to me.

[01:06:39] You wanted to say. I did say, for absolutely what it's worth, in my notes, it says, that being said, this one, Smith, is the hardest for me. Yeah.

[01:07:19] For I as McCarthy, which I will, I'll spoil my opinion on this a little early. This is the first track where I put down, this would be good if it didn't suck. Yeah, I have, I have my, this is my favorite so far. One static trick, like dead you said. Holding up the hoop, I'm begging you to fall through. Cats can't do that.

[01:07:50] But Dr. Starr, I walk around the clock. I mean, I walk around the clock. I know you'll be happy to do. Just like a baby.

[01:08:12] If that didn't fucking suck, it would be a really good song.

[01:08:40] If he was singing the right notes in that chorus, it would be so catchy. There's something. And yeah, yeah, that's truly it. This is, this is, I said it was my favorite so far. I know. And I was like, I thought, like, I was like, I'm interested. That's not the right word. I genuinely like this song. It's just like, this is what I was like. It sounds like a small version of the actual song that's about to hit. It's, it's, it's gestural. All these songs are, are like, I don't know if you ever did any drawing, like in, in life,

[01:09:09] but they teach you gesture drawing, which is where you keep a really fucking loose wrist. And you just like scribble back and forth to be like, yeah, I could draw a body. And you like, it gives you like the idea of the shape of the body. Yeah. And this has the idea of a shape of the song. And in that, I can invoke the bigger thing. Cause like, it doesn't feel like this is being done to impress anybody. It's not fucking impressive. But what it is being done because of is cause there's a physical need to release the music from his body. You know what I mean?

[01:09:38] Uh, it's, I mean, cause like, again, if he was singing the chorus, well, I like, I, it did like, it wasn't earworm for me, but when I hear it in my head, I make the notes right. And I don't, the thing that is like the most fucking nasty sounding instrumental part I've ever heard in a fucking song, not complimentary. I say nasty in a purely interrogatory way. Is that lead guitar line that he's playing? Oh my God.

[01:10:06] People talk about like, people talk about like, these punk bands, guitars are out of tune. And I'm like, I can't tell. And in punk, he doesn't matter. Like, even if you could tell, who cares? Uh, his guitar is fucking out of tune. This is why I was gone for sure that he knew that he was aware that this was a decision. So again, take all of my notes and thesis with the understanding that I was like, surely he intended this.

[01:10:35] Well, you think, I mean, you are kind of, I, I'm sure, but I'm trying to, you were onto something in thinking that because you were coming at this from the perspective of like, well, this was commercially released on purpose. Obviously you, this, you were happy with it when you released it. Otherwise this is your first album. No one was expecting this of you. You could have not. It must have been that it was such a small pressing that it didn't really, even really feel like an album release.

[01:11:04] It's just like, oh, this is like a fun thing I'm doing. Like I produce live shows, but I wouldn't say like, I'm a, I'm a professional comedian. Cause like, no, that's a different thing entirely. Uh, and I bet like if in the future I won't, but in the future, if I like decided to grind it and like become a touring standup and someone listened to me do the skewer in 2015 and not be polished, they'd be like, what? Well, this set's really bad. And it's just like, it was a different thing.

[01:11:34] It was a completely different thing. Yeah. It's released kind of like, it's a different thing. It's not the same. That's how I feel about this. Uh, you gotta get through. There's a lot of these fuckers. Mending song. Track number five. Oh, the horror won't define how you change your mind when I thought that you would simply change your ways. A hole in the bucket.

[01:12:03] Dinosaur say fuck it, but watch me disagree. I'll prove the day you set me free. Cause I say man, man, man. Shut the shells without the sand. I say man, man, man. Can I say something crazy? Yeah. This sounds like a modern baseball song. Oh my goodness.

[01:12:45] That one's so short that I could play the whole one. I think this one's also kind of just genuinely good. Like I can, like all the parts that suck and it do suck, but I think it's like good. It's the, this one might be the, on the album, the closest one to being like, that's a song. Like that's good. That's a proof of concept. I mean, it's pretty good. Uh, the synth that's off the beat constantly. Yeah. It's terrible.

[01:13:12] The, that there's darkness and there's breathing that end. That is like, I get like thrown into the future and I hear that. Cause I'm like, he, that's the kind of shit that's in real destroyer songs. Is that like little ending thing where it's just like, just a little like, right? I like that. We're in the strongest chunk of the album right now. That's why I would disagree because the next song I think is one of the worst signs I've ever heard in my fucking life. Period. Not even by destroyer. We're going to actively disagree on this one.

[01:13:41] Cause I also, I said, I said, it's good. I mean, I did write that this would be great if it didn't suck, but the suck is so palpable and oppressive. Well, here it is. I'll just play it. This is infinitely more listenable than, oh, I don't know.

[01:14:11] Let's just pick something at random. I wanted to pick this one. Yeah.

[01:14:44] This one. I wanted to hear it again. I could, you know, I would just hold your hand and you'd understand. Can I hear it? Wouldn't you rather listen? Can I hear it again?

[01:15:17] Why the drone? It's mad. It's crazy. Yeah. But I find, I find the gestural shape of what he is building more interesting than the Wilco shit. This one I get, I honestly put in my notes that this feels in step with Wilco. Unbelievable.

[01:15:52] Gotta get to the next part. That next part is kind of good. I can't. I wanted to get to how can you go home again if everything has been burnt, but I can't handle

[01:16:20] the drives me fucking nuts. It truly sounds like one day he was like a business major and he was like, I'm going to touch an instrument for the first time. I didn't record it. Then he found out that he was like good at it. The thing is, this is what I'm talking about. Like, if this would be great, it didn't suck. Like, this has really good and evocative lyrics. Yes. The ashes feel good in my hands. So did you.

[01:16:49] So they say, so they claim. So did you. How can you go home again if everything has been burnt? Like, this is pretty good shit. And the chords that he's playing on that electric guitar, they're pretty good. They sound good. I like how they move. And then. But I think that little like. I think that could be something if you if if this man went out and bought himself a marimba, I think he could be cooking. But this is the thing.

[01:17:19] A little guac and spiel. I come from the future and I tell you, like, you don't have to. There's no imagining needed about what Dan Behar could do and what he could become. I know he has good songs. These things fucking suck. These are bad. Like, like, I am George Carlin at the end of Bill and Ted saying they get better. Like, that's what I'm doing right now. All right. This next one. This is a real short one.

[01:17:48] I have to play the whole thing. The pornographers. Not the new pornographers. They're the old ones. The old ones. I'm not so fierce. Hold the cruise. The gold. The world. Give it.

[01:18:23] Hold the hold. This here's a half tone. The first one. Your porn. It's like genuinely he gives up. And he's like, he hits something and then he gets scared that he got somewhere.

[01:18:53] And then, like, everything stops. I mean, here's how I feel about this song. This song, it should not have been released. And I don't mean because it's bad. I mean for the same reason that, like, when you get hired and show up for work, you don't just give them your resume again. Like, this is a resume. This song is a resume that you, like, use to get hired. And then you make the songs that you release. Mm-hmm. Why is this?

[01:19:22] Like, the build halfway through is like, okay, I can see what this is going for. How it, like, changes and builds up and gets a little thicker. I like that. It sucks, though. But, like, I get. But it sucks. But, like, it's good. But it sucks. And I don't know. This next one, War on Jazz. This is one of the local ones. Whoa. Fuck off. This one's real tough for me. Yeah.

[01:19:52] No, I have no notes about it. I have no. Wait. No, I do. Oh, shit. What is it? What is it? Well, let's wait till after we hear. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:20:44] I gotta get to the ding, ding, ding part. That part sucks. Can I tell you something that's going to make you mad? You like that?

[01:21:13] War on Jazz also really has it. I'm trying to think of what it has a vibe of. I think there's a blend of, like, I think the band's called Glass Orchids. I need to double check to make sure. Or maybe it's Glass Beaches and the song I'm thinking of is Orchids. I'll double check all this shit before I say it on the podcast. But it has the vibe of that, the songwriting and structure, and the low-fi voice. This vibe is someone not in a studio. It's someone who's in the intimate space of their home trying to record something bigger than they can fit in their mouth.

[01:21:40] I also think it's not like, oh, he's just not skilled enough to play any of these instruments. I think that there's an intentionality in how things are done. But no, it's just that. That's all wrong. The first bit. And then, oh, there's a frog in the road. The fucking synth, the wiggly synth sounds like nothing so much as that toy eighth note. You know the one? The otomatone? It's awful. I hate the ding, ding, ding, ding.

[01:22:11] Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. I cannot stand this one. It's Glass Beaches, the band. I think that this has a vibe of, you're going to be so pissed at me for saying that. Look up the song Orchids. It's not like, and again, this is nothing like that. But it is like it in the shape. The shapes come up. I'm going to, this is not going to get shared, but trust me that I'm playing the YouTube video right now.

[01:22:40] For Orchids by Glass Beach. It's so much better. It is. This sounds like the music lovers, dude. Yeah. We watched the music lovers.

[01:23:05] This song also has a crazy drop in it, which if you get 45 seconds in, it like goes nuts. I'll get at least to that.

[01:23:41] This song whips. You know what doesn't? It's more on Taz by Destroyer. No, but like, but like there's, there's something similar in like its root. In the, you draw back apes and humans. You can find a similar root. I think a lot of this is me coping, trying to be like, I'm going to listen to 15 of these albums that I need to know what happens in the future. It's coping because if someone has listened to all of them, I'm just like, God damn it, Dan. And why'd you put this?

[01:24:11] I could, we could have started with City of Daughters. Holy shit. Ah, this next one is the beginning of a long tradition in Destroyerdom, which is having overt references to classic songs. And what do I mean by that? I mean, this song is literally called Islands in the Stream.

[01:24:32] Do you remember the song by Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton, the classic song that you love so much and it sounds really good and doesn't sound like an awful random bracket? Well, this is going to sound good, right? Let's find out. Listen to me where have you show when I tell you you are... Bone ringing! Portion of the business of the world.

[01:25:02] I did not take notes on this one. Just like, it's asked. Hey Joe, where you going? Nothing's worth knowing.

[01:25:19] I think the main takeaway for this album is that you cannot let Dan Behar play percussion. Ever. He needs to be locked in a room where he cannot touch... I don't even have notes for it. I took notes for everything else. This is the first one I skipped. This is awful random racket, phone ringing, double underlined.

[01:25:47] Good melody and lyrics under all that. But like, it doesn't matter. Like, that's the thing. It's like, oh, there's something here. But like, it doesn't matter that there's something here for me listening now for my pleasure. Because it sucks. That said, the next song is, I think, to me, we're about to enter the strongest part of the album.

[01:26:11] I said there are three songs that I would unreservedly call good songs, even as they are now. I think the first of those three is this next one, Sad Destroyer. No, no, Tom, no. You hate Sad Destroyer? Oh, brother. So you wanted to fuck a cop.

[01:26:45] Oh, y'all. You couldn't just keep it. Best device. Shake it. You sprinkle it like a surprise.

[01:27:10] So then when you break it, we're heading three, one, I did. This is the first time there's been like an instrumental break between the verses. That is true. It sounds like he's doing it on purpose.

[01:27:37] The problem is, this is, I think, the worst song on the album. Oh, shit. I had to leave that part in because, again, that is a guided by voices reference. There's going to be a lot of such things. You don't like Sad Destroyer? I like it. Obviously, he can't keep the waltz rhythm.

[01:28:03] He loses the tempo constantly to the point where I don't think I can actually unreservedly call this a good song. But I feel about this the way you have felt about so many where it's like, oh, this would be good if it was good. If it was good. I like the lyrics. I like calling someone my heart's salt shaker. You sprinkle it like a surprise. If he remembered that, if he seems like he forgot salt shaker halfway through, he was saying it.

[01:28:30] Which is my heart's salt shaker. Well, he's singing this song in a very sort of sleepy tone. You're right. You know, you're right. What honestly probably happened is that he realized he stepped out of tempo in the waltz and was trying to get back into it real. Dan, 30 years ago, trying isn't going to help. Just go with it. You've got to fuck it up regardless.

[01:28:57] But OK, one of the things I like about this, and we're not going to get into the lyrics, because it is extremely fucking boring to hear someone speak lyrics to you. But I'm just going to say that this song is about a love triangle. I think he's the, you know, he's being the sort of whiny art guy. He is the unrequited muh, muh, muh guy. Three, waltz. That's why. That's kind of fun. Does it make it good? Hard to say.

[01:29:26] It's just interesting. I genuinely, this was like, I think this was my first skip on the album. That's crazy. You didn't skip War on Jazz. You didn't skip. I listened to all of War on Jazz. Wow. All right. OK, now this one straight up. If you say Streets of Fire name dropping a classic Bruce Springsteen track in the title,

[01:29:54] if you say this is not good, I'm going to be. I say Streets of Fire is fun. I say Streets of Fire is fun. This is to me. You record all of these in your house to practice. And instead of releasing an album, you release a single, Streets of Fire, backed with Breaking the Law. I can support that. Here is Streets of Fire. Come on, come out of the ring.

[01:30:23] You're not impressed, you're just so learned it. I took the book, I lit the page. Your sabbatical is burning. Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet fires in the street. Let's sully every stage. Lick my lips, twist my hips, Contessa.

[01:31:00] Nothing's worked but me. I choose to lose my skin in the dirt. This whiskey priest, he burnt the church to keep his girls alive. Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet fires in the street. Let's sully every stage. It's so funny that he immediately starts rushing it, you know? He just immediately starts like, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet. But that one's good. That one's just good.

[01:31:30] You want to know how good it is. And you keep saying, oh, I'm seeing what it would be with a full band. Check this out. Does he make it again? Come on, come out of the ring. You're not impressed, you're just too learned it. I took the book, I lit the page. Your sabbatical was burning. Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet fires in the street. Let's sully every stage.

[01:32:00] Lick my lips, twist my hips, Contessa. I already did. This is the chaser to this entire episode. He's like, thank fucking God. Some things work for me. I choose to lose my skin in the dirt. This whiskey priest, he burned the church to keep his girls alive.

[01:32:31] Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet fires in the street. Let's sully every stage we meet. Let's sully every stage we meet. Lick my lips, twist my hips. For Contessa. I already did. We gotta get to this build up. This is so... And then it's like big. Oh my God. Oh, this is so nice.

[01:32:59] This is John Collins on bass, obviously. Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet fires in the street. Nico Case doing backups. Nico Case. Awesome. Pornographer's album, Twin Cinema.

[01:33:29] That's great. That's killer. If you were a power pump band and you know Dan and Dan says, hey, I got a song. Do you want to put it on the record? And he brings you Streets of Fire. You say, yes, Dan, you don't have to join. Just let's just do it. That was great. That sounded so good. I... Yeah, that was fantastic.

[01:33:56] That was so good to finally see the light at the end of the fucking tunnel. Well... Go... Let's go back in the tunnel because you have to listen to Rose. You have to listen to more of these. I gave you the tape and you said... If someone gave me this tape, I'd say it's... Is that this tape? Yeah, I think...

[01:34:26] The hand claps are... Where are you? That's not a beat. In high school, my friends and I would play a game where he'd try to clap off beat to music in the most annoying way possible. Dan wins. Dan wins. Oh, this one is tough. It's three minutes long. It's so slow.

[01:34:54] The only part of it that's a little interesting is where he says static means punk. Tuning is junk. Which is like... I can't tell he thinks that. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. There was a... There was a terrible interview in some alternative weekly back in 1996 where the interviewer is terrible and they ask this about... To Dan. Do Marshall Stacks scare Destroyer?

[01:35:23] What would be your ultimate recording environment? How does static mean punk? Please elaborate. Nope. These are three questions that the interviewer asked at once. Okay. Dan responds... An amp is not a scary thing. I like loud, noisy things. That will bear out in future Destroyer albums. An ultimate recording environment? I guess one of those many, many tracked studios with a Phil Spector-like person to come up with all the harmonies, string arrangements, wall of sound stuff, someone like John Collins. All for free, of course.

[01:35:53] John Collins probably charges. Static doesn't mean punk. From which it would follow that tuning does not, in fact, mean junk. I guess I was being tongue-in-cheek or ironic or something with those lyrics, which is always a stupid idea. You guess? Your brother, you wrote it. Backbone! Backbone! Backbone! Now, in this sense, in this instance, I have to back him up. It's stupid. It's stupid. He's right to be like, that was a little dumb.

[01:36:22] I have written here, and this is again, just to kind of reiterate, this thesis is wrong. I am fascinated with decisions on the album because it means they intentionally, it has to intentionally sound like this because it re-releases, which means they are standing by these artistic decisions. They didn't change it at all. So, I'm fascinated that he intended for it all to sound like this.

[01:36:47] I think it's one of those things where it's, he intended to make music by any means, and at this time, this was as good as it got. And, you know, it did it. Yeah. All right. This next one, I think, is one of the good songs on the album. Again, named after a classic song, Breaking the Law by Judas Priest. This is Breaking the Law by Destroyer.

[01:37:10] I can never place the name, never place the name.

[01:37:34] Don't touch me, don't touch me up to the T's by the numbers. It's not much, but I'm going under. It's not much, but I'm going under. It's not much, but I'm going under.

[01:38:04] An actual fucking transition to the next bit. I will have to skip ahead to the ending because the ending is badass, and I think he actually pulls off something he's trying to do, which is rare. So give us the key. Burn this hall of justice. And he's clapping on time. Yeah.

[01:38:43] For the right notes. And if you're like, gosh, that's like a really strong backbone for a song. Gosh, like it's got a really strong melody.

[01:39:13] It's got a nice structure. I really like that's that's something. Something's there. Listen to this. I can never place the name with the face.

[01:40:21] Let me skip to that same to give us the keys. And can you imagine how fucking triumphant that's going to sound with this fucking band behind it? Well, you'll find out. I can't wait. I can't wait.

[01:40:32] It's only in the right channel.

[01:41:10] Are you kidding me? Unbelievable. Wait, what did you say? The the the. That's only in the right channel on the headphones. That's good as hell. It's unbelievable. Unbelievable. It's that again is off of the 2000 album Mass Romantic by the new pornographers. Unbelievable. When you actually get a good band playing these songs, it's all. It can be really good. We're so close.

[01:41:38] We got only a few more of these pieces of shit sauce to get through. Let's get through them real fast. I don't have anything to say about these last two ones. No, I literally have no notes. I have no notes. I'm going to play a little bit of Whistling Dixie She Shoots. This was a skip for me. This is real tough. Burned every bullet you earned. OK, now imagine that for three minutes. Next one's Riots.

[01:42:05] Your chair is there. Your body is on the land. Oh, good. Until you bring it home. I'm striking up the band just so you know. There'll be riots on your hands. There'll be riots on your hands.

[01:42:35] Riots on your hands. I control the masses. The traffic. OK, yeah, it's a nice little tune. I see you showing me the two songs from the future really kind of reveals your stance on this and makes me lean closer to your stance.

[01:43:01] Because like truly massive amounts of coat on all the things. Just kind of hope. Just kind of like trucking through it. Going like, I have to listen to more of this guy. I have to kind of weasel out what makes him good. And you showing me here's what makes him good. Cool. Awesome. Like that. Those were bangers. And and I'm excited to listen to any other album. Yeah.

[01:43:28] The last song, Knowing When to Leave slang mix is just a bunch of found sounds stitched together. It's not really a song. I'll play a little bit just so you know what I mean. But I did listen to this. Yeah. Yeah, whatever. That's not a song. Um, I will say that those songs I play, they are new pornographer songs, not Destroyer.

[01:43:57] They have a different sort of feel and, uh, and philosophy than Destroyer, which is why Dan Dan is comfortable. He's still dipping into that milieu for two or three songs and album. And then going off and doing his own thing. So if you are looking for sugar sweet power pop bangers, newer pornographers is where you're going to find them. And we're going to cover all the albums that Dan is on that that they put out.

[01:44:24] Destroyer is not that, but it is a similar level of of goodening where it's like, oh, because it's the same. The producer and arranger and and producer is John Collins on new pornographers records and on Destroyer records. So that level of competence and like this just sounds huge and beautiful and amazing. That's throughout.

[01:44:52] So, yeah, I will now give my opinion and we'll build them a golden bridge. It is the worst Destroyer album by a significant margin on the finale of this series. We will rank the Destroyer albums from best to worst or worst to best. And that's going to be a tough thing for me to do because I love them all in different ways. But one thing that will not be tough is that number 15 is we'll build them a golden bridge with a fucking bullet. It is really a tough.

[01:45:21] It grew on me. I will say it grew on me. The first time I listened to it, I was just like, this is the worst I ever heard. The second, third, fourth time I'm like, OK, I'm hearing some good melodies. But like, boy, oh, boy, this sucks. 6.5 out of 10. I am interested to come back to it after having ventured down the path a bit. Yeah. Fuck. That was the first episode. How do you feel? Was there rhythm? Did we did that feel good? That felt that felt like a rhythm. That felt like a rhythm.

[01:45:50] That felt like a good podcast, you know, and we we yapped at the top, but it was extra long because we had to lay out. You had to lay out the the pathing for all of Destroyer. And next time, I'll just tell you how a tornado almost hit my house. And then I'll be fine. Oh, wait, I know because of the weather. Yeah. Because of the frickin weather is genuinely fucking crazy. I'm going to say we don't even talk about this on the podcast, but genuinely. Yes, we do. Half a half mile south of me. I got I like I was sitting on Monday watching the watching the storm going like, oh, that

[01:46:20] rain's coming down hard. I was like, oh, wow, the wind's picking up really fast. And a branch gets ripped off my tree. I'm like, I got to go downstairs. I talked to my neighbor. This is like literally shot about a half mile south of me looking north where my home is. I'm showing you a picture of a fucking malformed funnel cloud slowly growing literally above my home. Didn't land. We're good. We're all good here. But that shit's crazy.

[01:46:50] This bro listener listening at home, all spell and trap cards on the field are getting returned to the hand because I'm looking at a giant trunade. Holy shit. It's fucked. It's genuinely so frightening. But we made it. We lived. It rules how climate collapse is happening now. Yeah. Tornado alley is now where we are. That's true. That's actually true. That's one of the worst alleys to live in. I know. Right.

[01:47:20] Crime alley. Maybe the second. Anyway, I can't get you mad at this fucking fly around my goddamn room the entire recording and it keeps landing on shit. I'm getting fed up with it. If you saw me throw a pillow at my window earlier, it's because this fuck. Bitch, get out of here. I'm recording. I like this show. This was fun. This was fun. I'm glad we did it. I'm glad we got this shit out of the way so they can only go up from here.

[01:47:48] I can't hold it too much against Dan that he made music like this when he was 23. Because when I was 23, I wasn't doing shit of any consequence. And if I tried to make music, it would be way worse than this. But again, just like why release it? That's to me, that's the big sin of this is that like these are demos. You don't release your demos unless you are Bruce Springsteen and you look at them later having thought that they were demos all along and go, oh, they're really good.

[01:48:17] Like you don't start intending to put these out. But whatever, whatever, whatever. Bye bye. Wait, you want to pitch anything? Oh yeah. Hi. Hi. Hello. Hi. Moonshot Podcast Network. If you're still here, I do like actual play stuff, mainly fanfic actual play. If you listen to ShuffleQuest, you understand the idea of like what if an actual play was

[01:48:47] funny and went to different worlds and shit. Like I do stuff like that. I don't I I I'm playing less games and more now just kind of gathering people on a call and going, what do we think it would be cool if this thing like happened here? We're doing like writer's room shit, which frankly has been a blast. This is so noble. I'm also. This is what podcasters should be allowed to do. You should defend them for this reason. Absolutely.

[01:49:14] I've also got the podcast mindset before the grace of pod go we with my good buddy Andrew Sherman, where if you like Tom being upset with things I said, Andrew also gets upset about things I said. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I stream on Thursdays and Fridays with either watching my friend Cam play Sekiro or I am playing Gotham Knights on Friday night with my friends Martin and Mac and and tomorrow

[01:49:44] of recording I am releasing. I have gotten back in contact with my friend Parker, who I made Bed Bath and Biotical with where we read all the Biotical Wiki at 6 a.m. I call him every day or we did a eighth anniversary episode that is releasing tomorrow for me. You'll be able to hear it. Yeah, it'll be a while. It'll be a couple of weeks into past. Yeah, which is but that just means there's no time to waste. Go get it. How to waste. Get to it now.

[01:50:13] Podcasts go bad if you don't listen to them right away. Exactly. If you finish a podcast and have it like, oh, yeah, I have a repertoire of like eight finished shows. No one's listening to that. It doesn't come out weekly. What is this? A TV? It ain't doing that. You can't see us. No one's got Plex servers with old podcasts on it. Yeah. John Cena. I was doing the thing. You can't see. I was doing the thing. Destroyer. Did that dude describe Destroyer?

[01:50:42] I hope you like this. There's going to be more unless nobody did. And it's not worth the effort anymore. I would love it if it was worth the effort. Just so you know, folks, we are planning to do obviously all the Destroyer LPs and all the new Pornographers LPs that Dan's on. He eventually left. I won't say quit the band because he was never in the band. He just stopped showing up with three songs. That's awesome.

[01:51:09] But there's like a ton of ancillary material and super groups he was in briefly that we're not going to do unless you tell us to. So if that's interesting, you tell us. And if it's not, don't take no action required. Anyway, bye bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.